E9 manifold leak

[m16ty]

On my E9, I've got a leak in the exhaust manifold in the elbow on the right side where it turns up to go into the turbo. How hard is this to fix? Since the manifold is made into a bunch of different pieces, I'm afraid when I disturb it, I'll have leaks everywhere. From looking at the manual, it looks like it has something like a piston ring that is inside the joints to seal them. Is there any trick to taking these apart and getting them back together where it won't leak? 

[fjh]

Usually your best bet is to disturb just the elbows you'll need to remove the motor mount on the side your working on and jack the engine up to get to the bolts!

The bolts will likely be seized so soak em down with penetrating oil for a few days and have a torch handy cause your likely to have a fight on your hands ! When and if you get this elbow off install new  seal ( piston rings) and assemble with High temp silicone  this fix will work for only a while as usually everything will be worn from vibration the only real way to seal these is to replace the elbows or if you can find a machine shop that can sleeve them !THEY ARE HARD TO FIND AND PRICEY if you do find them! I have also seen them welded Good luck with it!

[m16ty]

8 hours ago, fjh said:

Usually your best bet is to disturb just the elbows you'll need to remove the motor mount on the side your working on and jack the engine up to get to the bolts!

The bolts will likely be seized so soak em down with penetrating oil for a few days and have a torch handy cause your likely to have a fight on your hands ! When and if you get this elbow off install new  seal ( piston rings) and assemble with High temp silicone  this fix will work for only a while as usually everything will be worn from vibration the only real way to seal these is to replace the elbows or if you can find a machine shop that can sleeve them !THEY ARE HARD TO FIND AND PRICEY if you do find them! I have also seen them welded Good luck with it!

When you say "welded", are you talking about welding the joint up solid? I wouldn't mind welding the elbow joint, as it's a piece that wouldn't need to come apart again, but is that a wise thing to do? I assume the joints are there to take up for expansion and contraction, would you take a chance of something breaking if you welded it up solid where it couldn't give?  

[fjh]

Yup Said I have seen it done Not by any means recommending it That said if you were to leave the joint at the turbo base free you would have your expansion covered!

Edited October 7, 2018 by fjh

[m16ty]

I’ve fought for 2 afternoons trying a minimally evasive way to remove the leaking joint, now I’m ready to give up. Only way I see at this point is to remove the whole passenger side manifold to get it apart.

I think I’m going to try some exhaust putty and see if it works. I’m just afraid I’m going to end up with broken bolts and all the joints leaking, if I try to take it all off. Has anybody used the putty with decent results? I saw a YouTube video where a guy put a shop vac into the exhaust outlet when he applied the putty. Claimed it would suck the putty into the leak, makes sense to me.

[fjh]

highly doubt the the vac thing as you have open valves to fight with the chances of getting a total vacuum is slim to impossible  at best !

[m16ty]

1 hour ago, fjh said:

highly doubt the the vac thing as you have open valves to fight with the chances of getting a total vacuum is slim to impossible  at best !

If your valves are working right, there should never be an air passageway from the exhaust manifold to the atmosphere (other than out the stack). There may be a intake or exhaust valve open, but never at the same time.

 

 

 

[Outbehindthebarn]

23 hours ago, m16ty said:

I’ve fought for 2 afternoons trying a minimally evasive way to remove the leaking joint, now I’m ready to give up. Only way I see at this point is to remove the whole passenger side manifold to get it apart.

I think I’m going to try some exhaust putty and see if it works. I’m just afraid I’m going to end up with broken bolts and all the joints leaking, if I try to take it all off. Has anybody used the putty with decent results? I saw a YouTube video where a guy put a shop vac into the exhaust outlet when he applied the putty. Claimed it would suck the putty into the leak, makes sense to me.

I have a suggestion... try ramming some aluminum wire into the groove, tapping it in and around using a flat head screw driver. Could use copper too, but I think aluminum expands more than copper. Worth trying. In my experience, putty probably won't work.

[BGarofalo]

8 hours ago, m16ty said:

If your valves are working right, there should never be an air passageway from the exhaust manifold to the atmosphere (other than out the stack). There may be a intake or exhaust valve open, but never at the same time.

 

 

 

In some engines this is true but more often than not there is valve overlap. Meaning both intake and exhaust valves open.   This is common for cooling the exhaust valves. Also heavily used in emissions engines. 

Ive never had luck with that cement. It looks good when it dries and you have such high hopes, but then after 2 miles it’s right back to square one.  

[m16ty]

18 hours ago, Outbehindthebarn said:

I have a suggestion... try ramming some aluminum wire into the groove, tapping it in and around using a flat head screw driver. Could use copper too, but I think aluminum expands more than copper. Worth trying. In my experience, putty probably won't work.

I like this idea, I may give it a try. I’ve seen asbestos type rope that I’ve also thought about, but I’ve never seen any of it in a small enough dia to fit in the gap. The thinking was, get it shoved in there as far as you can, and then put a hose clamp against the joint to keep it from backing or blowing out.

I’m also contemplating welding. It’s a joint that wouldn’t have to come apart in the future. The only problem is, it’s in a bad spot and I’m not sure I can get in there to weld it all the way. I’d rather try that first though, than some sort of sealer. If you use the sealer first and try to weld later, then you have the problem of removing all the sealer.

Edited October 21, 2018 by m16ty

[m16ty]

Well today I decided to tackle the manifold leak. I ordered some silica rope gasket from MSC in 1/8" and 1/4" diameter. Took the 1/8 and was able to force it into joint with a screwdriver for 3 rounds. Next I rapped the 1/4 around it 3 rounds and then forced it in tight with a hose clamp.

After a test run, everything is holding good. The silica rope gasket is rated for around 2,000 deg. 

[Outbehindthebarn]

8 hours ago, m16ty said:

Well today I decided to tackle the manifold leak. I ordered some silica rope gasket from MSC in 1/8" and 1/4" diameter. Took the 1/8 and was able to force it into joint with a screwdriver for 3 rounds. Next I rapped the 1/4 around it 3 rounds and then forced it in tight with a hose clamp.

After a test run, everything is holding good. The silica rope gasket is rated for around 2,000 deg. 

Can you send a photo of your work? Is that rope easy to work with?

[m16ty]

I’ll try to get a pic today, but all you can really see now is the hose clamp. The rope is almost too flexible, requiring 2 sets of hands to work it into place. 

First thing I did was clean the joint the best I could, getting down into the crack as much as I could. The 1/8 rope is small enough to be worked into the crack. I just kept working it around the pipe until the crack was full. The 1/4 rope went on the outside, but still on the taper of the female piece, using the hose clamp to push the rope against the taper and force everything tight to the joint.

I also found that there are two different types of high temp rope gasket, silica and fiberglass. The silica has a rating of around 2,000 deg and the fiberglass had a rating of around 1,000 deg. I went with the silica, although it is twice as exspensive, but no more than I used, I think I had around $20 in material.

[Outbehindthebarn]

5 minutes ago, m16ty said:

I’ll try to get a pic today, but all you can really see now is the hose clamp. The rope is almost too flexible, requiring 2 sets of hands to work it into place. 

First thing I did was clean the joint the best I could, getting down into the crack as much as I could. The 1/8 rope is small enough to be worked into the crack. I just kept working it around the pipe until the crack was full. The 1/4 rope went on the outside, but still on the taper of the female piece, using the hose clamp to push the rope against the taper and force everything tight to the joint.

I also found that there are two different types of high temp rope gasket, silica and fiberglass. The silica has a rating of around 2,000 deg and the fiberglass had a rating of around 1,000 deg. I went with the silica, although it is twice as exspensive, but no more than I used, I think I had around $20 in material.

I can't find the 1/8 inch rope.. do you have a link?

[m16ty]

On 11/9/2018 at 7:39 AM, Outbehindthebarn said:

I can't find the 1/8 inch rope.. do you have a link?

Here you go- https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/?searchterm=rope+gasket&hdrsrh=true

[jegster10]

I'm pretty sure Francis Engineering can fix or rebuild your manifold, might give them a call, heck they may even make new ones.

[m16ty]

4 hours ago, jegster10 said:

I'm pretty sure Francis Engineering can fix or rebuild your manifold, might give them a call, heck they may even make new ones.

Thanks for the info. As of right now though, my $5 repair is holding strong.