vanscottbuilders

Hi Rob, Excellent! I'll keep you posted. Maybe we could bring the R-600 & trailer to you on one of our trucks, and bring this rear end home. (Something tempting to think about) Thanks, Paul VS

I am looking to transport a single axle Mack rear end from Tulsa, Oklahoma to Rochester, NY. The rear end has wheels on it. There is a forklift at each end of the trip for loading/unloading. This could easily go on a tag trailer or on the back of a straight truck, as well as a partial load on, or in a trailer. Unloading is easy - five minutes from the Interstate 90 and in a large truck yard. If you are coming this way - I would certainly be happy to pay my share of your trip. Thanks, Paul Van Scott

Call Barry at Watts Mack - get out your wallet - and be totally amazed at what you will get back. They have a new supplier for wing window assemblies. Not cheap, but fantastic ! Really good originals are getting hard to come by, and rebuilding and rechroming isn't cheap either. My guess is that it is about the same as buying new. Paul Van Scott

I've got this same question. Someone must know of a source for a suitable rubber insulator material. On one of my trucks I found Garlock gasket rubber about 1/4" thick used as the bracket to tank insulator - it was great stuff - fabric reinforced and able to cut to size - but, even though it's made near here, I can't find any. On the straps the Garlock material is way too heavy to make the curves. I was thinking of gluing up several laminations of inner tube material for the strap insulators. Maybe we should get Barry in on this - perhaps Watts Mack already has the right stuff. Or maybe this is a fairly generic material used on a number of trucks. Paul Van Scott

If I were a betting person, I would put money on the "jury rigged" fuel supply hose. If it is getting too hot, it could certainly cause vapor lock. And not being original, it is likely not routed in the original manner, either. So it could be too close to something hot, which could lead to unpleasant surprises while driving ! The fuel pressure gauge is a good idea, but I think clogging of the pick-up line would occur at any temperature. Just my two cents. See if you can a response from Freightrain - drag racers probably know more about vapor lock than anyone on the planet. Good Luck, Paul Van Scott

Every once in a while everything comes together in a really good way. Macungie was a tremendous show this year - better than any other I've been to. The number of vendors and the selection of parts was fantastic, and the trucks - what can you say - plus the weather! And what an outstanding effort by all of the people who organized and worked at the show. Although we missed some of the big names like the Moxley family Macks and the trucks of David Strickland, the huge number of newcomers made for a great show. It was good to see Dennis Meahan holding court in front of his truck when I walked by! Thanks for posting the photos - you caught a good part of the shoe spirit. Paul Van Scott

This is a really good item for discussion - I wonder how many of these big trucks are owned without spousal knowledge (or at least we think that we have them without our spouse's knowledge) - I know I have a couple trucks and a couple of tractors that are "mysterious" in their whereabouts. Paul Van Scott

Ah Well Rob - and B61Fred won't be there either - It all means that I have a much better chance of scoring some of the good parts - cheap !! Seriously, we'll miss you guys. heh, heh. heh Paul Van Scott

It would seem as though, with the national ATHS show in Denver this summer, someone should be looking for a little "cost sharing" in the expense of moving their trailers to or from Colorado. There was a fellow a few weeks back looking for help getting his project truck from Michigan to Colorado, now this truck looking to move from Colorado to Ohio. Maybe we aren't getting the right word out - but this is a good opportunity for someone to reduce their operating costs and help out another hobbyist in need. If you are going to Colorado with room on a trailer - try this forum board out - it works. Paul Van Scott

Steve, The Maxidyne engines were available in several horsepower ratings, depending on turbo boost pressures and compression ratios etc. So the 300hp engine that you are referring to could be a Maxidyne. There definitely was one. I don't know if the E-7 and the early Maxidynes are the same or not. Your fuel consumption calculation is a little skewed - 1st you are comparing a diesel engine to a gas engine, 2nd- the gear ratio and engine speed (rpm) are not in the calculation and finally, the type of driving that you will be doing will have an effect. (Are you loaded or empty, on flat terrain or hilly etc., etc.) The Macks are generally pretty fuel efficient. Depending on all of the above factors, if you were empty and being careful, 9 or even 10 mpg would not be impossible. If, like the rest of us ancient gearheads, you like to see the smoke - then you need to open your wallet a little wider, because your fuel bill will grow proportionally. The 673 cid, 711 cid and early Maxidyne (237, 285 and 300 hp) engine blocks were all the same external dimensions just like the small block Chevrolets. When you add turbochargers, aftercoolers, hydraulic steering pumps etc. the space required for an installation does change. If the early Lanova/Mack diesel was available in your truck with the transmission that you have, then the 673 or 711 should bolt in. That old transmission, however, was not designed for the tremendous torque of the Maxidyne engines, and might not be the best choice of gearboxes, if you go with the big power of a Maxidyne. Some of the various engines might have the starter located in a different location from yours. There will be a bellhousing available to allow a corrected location, if your bellhousing won't work. And I don't know if it will or not. As for the "mounts", at least in the B model Macks - the engine has a front mount on the forward most crossmember and the rear bolts to the transmission, which in turn, hangs from two mounts on the frame. I have never changed a gas engine to a diesel, so I don't know what you're dealing with for existing mounts. As for my personal power combination - my situation just changed this morning. I have been able to buy a B61 single axle road tractor with a 673 and a triplex, and a 711 powered R600 long wheelbase single axle tractor with a duplex direct drive transmission. So my options have increased. I will probably finish the B67 more as a local use toy and do the B61 for longer drives because the cab has more room inside. What that means is that the B67 will get its original 673P (185 hp) with a .86 overgear triplex and its original 5.46 rear end on a new air suspension. This gives me only about a 60 mph top speed, but with real good pulling power. Power management is fairly critical with the lower power diesels, and you need to decide whether you want to pull weight or go fast. You probably won't be able to both at the same time very well. If you want to do what Fred is thinking of - that is retrofitting a 237 hp Maxidyne to his B61 - then you get more performance all the way along the scale. That is, you can pull more and go faster. And it is very dependable, as long as the driver is careful not to overstress the gearbox and the driveline. Have you contacted the Mack Museum in Pa. ? And you might also want to log into www.oldmacksrus.com and surf around. Tom Gannaway and several real authorities have put together a tremendous resource of information on that site. Have Fun, and remember (Tom Gannaway told me this) - there is no wrong or right - it's what works for you. Paul Van Scott

MackAttack: I thought that the Lanova diesel was available in the LJT. If it was - isn't it about the same physical size as the 673? If so - a 673 or a 711 diesel with a duplex or triplex transmission would give you an all Mack drivetrain. (Or - a Maxidyne 237 with a straight 5 speed) And certainly if the 300hp Post Office power train would fit - the 673/711/237 engines would also, and they would fit much easier at that. I don't think that the Allison will just bolt in, though. To answer your earlier question - the 673 diesel is indeed about that size (672 ci) and was offered in the B models, and other Macks, through the fifties and early sixties along with the big gas engines (the 707's, like you have). The diesel was preferred by many operators, although there were a lot of gas powered Macks. I'm not really sure, but there may indeed be a weight difference, like Packer said earlier, between the gas and diesel power plants. As the technology developed, the Maxidyne series of diesel engines replaced the older 673's and 711 diesels with new "high torque rise" powerhouse engines in the mid sixties. The new engines had a very wide power band, and could be effectively used with the straight five speed transmission for many applications. These engines are physically the same size, albeit only with the two valve heads (four valve heads increase the space required to install the engine). But, as Packer said, the accessories and "bolt-on" equipment, like turbo housings, aftercoolers etc., will increase the space necessary for the installation. As the horsepower goes up, you seem to get more stuff required to be bolted to the engine. In the LJT you will probably be short of space. I looked at all of these possibilities for my B67 project (also a "space constrained" cab) - and I decided to stick with the old tried and true diesel. While I cannot comment on the Cummins, which I believe to be a really good engine, I can say with some certainty that the 300hp Mack will be a difficult fit. And I'm sure that the Allison will challenge you even more. As for my spare 673 - it is a complete engine less the generator and starter, which stayed with the original truck. I need to look at the bellhousing to see if the flywheel is there or not - I think it is, but, I'm old enough that I don't remember. We all talk - a lot. And sometimes we take things for granted as for what may or may not work. I would suggest, before you do anything, you should find out what the LJT had for engine options and front axle choices from the factory. Then you can figure out what will really work well for you. It may be as simple as beefing up the front springs and plugging in one of the Mack diesels. Good Luck with your project - Paul Van Scott

I have a good 673 Mack diesel, normally aspirated, with new fuel injectors and fuel pump tune-up. I also have a good direct drive (10 speed) transmission to put behind it. I am using a 711 and a triplex transmission in my truck, so I will not be needing these parts. If I got $1,500.00 for the engine & transmission I would be happy, and you would be well on your way to converting to diesel power. The engine came out of a running truck, recently. It was changed for more power, as the truck is being used on the road to pull fairly heavy loads. The duplex came out of my own truck, and was operating fine when removed. You are welcome to pick up the parts, or we can arrange delivery at a reasonable cost. Contact me through this website if interested. Thanks, Paul Van Scott

Thanks Rob and Thanks Morgan, I was pretty well resigned to having to manufacture a new driveshaft anyway - so the yoke difference wouldn't be so bad. There are a few of these 4.17 rear ends around - and I think I found one in Minnesota that has a complete Mack air ride too. It does have the coarse spline, but at least it is a front loading unit rather than the top loading Mack rear end. My alterations should be minimal. Hope to see you at Macungie! Keep your phone on Morgan - I'll call when I'm close to the show grounds on Friday afternoon. Paul VS

Does anyone know the difference, in the number of teeth (I presume), between the coarse spline and the fine spline apparently offered in the Mack rear ends? In my search for a single axle 4.17 ratio rear end - this question has been very common, and I don't know which one I have or which I need. Thanks, Paul Van Scott

It appears that, after some analysis of my wallet, the best choice for me is to find a good used 4.17 Mack rear end and use it with my TRTL-72 (.86 overdrive) transmission bolted to the 711 engine for a final drive ratio of 3.59, and a little more grunt than the original 673P. Putting the truck on the tallest 22.5 rubber I can find should give me about 72 mph at the redline in overdrive without having to convert to 24.5 hubs. Yet I should still have sufficient pulling power down low. At last - all those wasted nights at the drag strip figuring this stuff out is starting to pay off. And my mother said I would never amount to anything!! Who would have guessed. Now - does anyone have a good used 4.17 axle assembly - either on Dayton or Budd hubs? Springs are not necessary - I'm using an air ride set-up. Thanks, Paul Van Scott

Freightrain, The 4.62 with a single over triplex makes sense for about 64 mph, Thanks. Sounds like you can cruise comfortably at around 60 mph, which is pretty good. Do you have sufficient pulling power for the loaded race car trailer with this combination and the 673? This has been an interesting forum for me, as the conditions under which we drive today are so much different from the driving conditions in the fifties - when these trucks were really the state of the industry with their use of super dependable low horsepower diesels, low rear end ratios and plenty of transmission choices. Thanks, Paul VS

Barry, Just to be clear - is it $1,000.00 for the pair, or for each side? And you are right - they look fantastic. Thanks, Paul Van Scott

Packer, I went to the oldmacksrus site - I had forgotten what a great reference tool that is. Those guys should get medals for all of their work. Tom Gannaway actually convinced me to go forward with the B67 project, and not to be afraid of tailoring the truck to my own use rather than being strict about a perfectly original restoration. I guess I can blame him for all of this confusion. As it happens, there is a B83 close by here with a double overdrive quadruplex that I can probably acquire. So I am going to look at the physical size of the case and the transmission model number. Once again however - I will probably not accomplish my original mission - rather I will bring home the whole truck for another one of those "future" projects. Ah well. I guess it's good to have spares. Say - I'm curious, are you anywhere near Afton, Wy.? The Aviat Aircraft company in Afton built an airplane for me a few years ago - they are really good guys. Thanks, Paul VS

Thanks everybody !! What I was hoping for, in part, was to keep all of the pulling power of the original 5.46 rear end, and get some top end speed with the double over transmission. Sort of have my cake and eat it too. I have a single over triplex with the light aluminum case all ready to go in the truck, and I own an older Rockwell rear of about 4.11 that is in used condition and largely unknown (It isn't too pretty). With a higher ratio rear, I can definitely get more road speed - but with a 711 motor, I don't really have any extra grunt for the low end. I'm curious Packer; does the double over quadruplex transmission have a larger case than the triplex - and would fitting be any issue? That transmission might be the best answer, if any were available. And does the "720" designator apply to the quadruplex as well as the triplex? The idea of getting a 70 or 75 mph top end at redline is what I was thinking, too. That way an easy cruise of around 60 or 62 is comfortable for everyone involved - noise and fuel consumption are minimized, driver fear is reduced, and tickets are less of a concern. (Until now, I didn't think it was possible to get a speeding ticket in a B model !!) To achieve the 75 mph top end - I calculated a need for a 3.59 final drive ratio, including the overdrive reduction and 22.5 rubber. To get there, I need a rear axle ratio of 4.10, using the single over triplex with the .86 over gear. With a double over transmission gear of .68, I get real close (3.71) with my original 5.46 rear end. For "fine tuning", I still have the option of 24.5" wheels and tires. Thanks again, Paul VS Matt, Are you using a double over (#720) triplex with the 4.62 rear axle to get an 80 mph top end speed? If it is a single overdrive (.86 gear) - then my math is seriously flawed - and that happens a lot !! Let me know, before I do something stupid - Again. Just ask my wife. Thanks, Paul VS

Does anyone know where I might find the percentage of overdrive of the double overdrive triplex transmission that was available in the B model? And - would anyone have one of these transmissions that they would like to part with? Or - is it possible to purchase the gearset necessary to convert my single (.86) over triplex to a double over unit? A .70 or so overdrive would let me use the good original 5.46 single reduction rear I have for a 65 mph or so top speed. I am trying to avoid buying another rear end for my B67 project, and yet still have enough road speed to at least stay out of the way. And, I would really like to use the original housing with the Mack logo machined in the back. Another reasonable alternative might be to find a good 4.17 ratio rear end from an R model - can anyone help me with one of these? I will be at Macungie - I just need to know if I should bring a trailer - if someone has the parts available. Or I can use our new BMT transportation assistance forum to get the parts from anywhere in the country to upstate NY. Thanks, Paul Van Scott

Charlie, Glad it all worked out for you. Hope to see that truck at the shows in the future - it is a looker ! Paul Van Scott

There was a fellow who called me a short while back with a Seagrave hook & ladder fire truck that was in Punxsatawny, Pa. and wanted to go to the Lousiville, Ky. area. His name was Charlie Hatfield (not sure of his BMT member name). His phone # 502-939-8883. Someone with a flat bed or a long drop deck looking for a back haul or a cheap load should call him for details. Seems that the truck was about 35' overall with some ladder overhang. It would have made a nice load on one of our drop decks with the ladders facing forward over the top deck. I know that the truck rolls, I'm not sure if it runs. And I think that the storage yard might be able to help with loading the unit on your trailer. But you will need to confirm with the owner, as I am old and tend to lose some of the details. Nice to see some activity on this new Transportation Board. Thanks, Paul Van Scott

Hi everyone, This idea of Rob's is exactly what I had in mind. I think it is too much to ask of Barry to try to keep a list current, as it will take some real coordination and time - something Barry gives us a lot of already!! But having Barry post it here is critical to getting the information out to all of us. Thanks to you both ! Looking forward to taking advantage of the new system. Should be no need to run any size truck empty ever again - unless we are drag racing. Paul Van Scott

Thanks to everyone who called - this idea has been really well received. We are planning to move Rob Swallow's R-model, as Rob was the 1st caller. And just to prove that these things can work out - Rob's truck is being delivered, at his request, to the same place that we are loading up our own stuff ! There were at least four calls with vehicles close to Altoona, Pa. to be moved within the area that I specified. When the situation comes up, we will do this again. I wonder if we, as BMT members, could maintain a current list of available loads and available trucks for hire on our website? The currency of the list is most important, and probably the hardest to keep up. The list should be limited, at least in my mind, to antique and hobbyist vehicles and parts, only, and to trucks that are willing to work by sharing the costs. We are all moving around the country, in vehicles of all sizes, all the time. Might as well do it loaded. And if we can help out each other, and help out our hobby - all the better. Just food for thought. Thanks, Paul Van Scott

I ran this message by Barry last night - he suggested it be posted here - We are delivering a large piece of equipment to Altoona, Pa. on or about April 09 or 10 on one of our trucks. Our intention is to deadhead from Altoona to Bloomington, Ind. to load an old Peterbilt and a bunch of antique parts, then go down to south/central Kentucky and pick up an IH Transtar tractor for a friend of ours, and bring the whole pile home to upstate NY for our personal enjoyment. We can reverse the loading order with no problem. The point of all this is - we will have an empty 52' spread axle step deck trailer and a four axle tractor in southwest Pa. on Monday April 09, or Tuesday April 10. We like to help out antique and hobby truck people if possible. We would be available to pick up an old vehicle or two, or heavy parts for old trucks, from the general Pittsburgh/Altoona, central Pa., or southeast Ohio areas going to Indiana, western Ohio, Kentucky or northern Tennessee. Basically we could do this for the price of fuel from point to point plus fuel from your delivery point to our nearest loading point (either north/central Ky., or southwest Ind.) Can't get any cheaper than that. We are going to make the trip empty anyway - this just defrays the cost a little. The catch is - it has to be an antique or a hobby vehicle, and you have to have a method of getting it on and off the 30" high trailer deck. (loading ramp, fork lift etc.) We do not carry ramps or winches. If you are interested - Please contact me here on this site, or by phone at (585) 509-4783 ASAP. Thanks, Paul Van Scott