Old lowboy walking beam suspension questions?

[seyser]

I have been on the browse for an older lowboy trailer. I found an old Wisconsin Trailer Co fixed neck trailer that's in nice shape but needs running gear work. This has a walking beam suspension that doesn't appear to be of a name brand but built by the trailer company. Can these be rebuilt? It has wear on the tires and I can visually see its not running true. I'm sure the pins and bushings are totally wore out. I have no experience with any of this stuff so trying to see what can be done with something like this? 

-Jeremy

 

[Geoff Weeks]

You sure find (and drag home) the weird ones. Never ever, seen a trailer axle where the center was cut out! I'm sure it has bad tire wear from the axles not being held true. All the forces are going through a single pivot point, with the axle cut it is going to tend to bow up under load, without a full axle it is going oscillate back a forth because not tied to the other side

 You could drop the beam out and rebush, may have to make the bushing, but that isn't going to solve all the other problems.

Looks like it was made that way, but begs the question why? 

edit: I confused you with another guy that had a low-boy with axle problems, Sorry. 

Edited yesterday at 01:38 PM by Geoff Weeks

[seyser]

Geoff - I appreciate the reply! I'm a novice with this stuff and I understand the concern with not having the axles hooked together as I'm sure that would help make it more ridged. I suppose this does allow each tandem oscillate more.

Let me ask the question, Would this design not be common practice for older built equipment trailers? I know there were many more smaller trailer companies around years ago but I haven't been around many to know how they were built?

[Geoff Weeks]

I have never seen it done like that in a semi trailer, unless it was a "trunnion  axle with tires and brakes on both sides of the walking beam for 8 tires across. Cozad trailers are built like that.

[Geoff Weeks]

It may explain why the trailer didn't get used much.

If I had time an money to put into it, there are a couple ways to "fix" it. One would be to cut out the axles and replace. The other would be to weld structural tubing back in where they cut the axle.

Problem is with either method you are going to have a lot of welding that has to be done correctly and the axles have to be in perfect alignment when welded as there is no adjustment possible.

You can't just slide a new axle in unless you get one with no brake spider on it and the weld a spider on.  Lots of making sure everything is correct before welding.

 You can cut out the back of the box beam and install an axle but then have to re-weld in the box for strength. 

You can re-bush the center pivot which would help but not solve all the issues.

Easiest method for a good "pipeline" welder would be to weld tube back where it was cut out.

[mrsmackpaul]

I have never seen a axle ser up like this, however it should be all fixable 

I'm sure that line boring must be common in the U.S. like Australia 

We can get line boring people to come to site, whether it's your back yard or down paddock or on some building site in the middle of a big city

They can weld the pivot bores up and then make them perfectly square with the trailer and then bore the holes out

And then match the walking beams perfectly with the trunions, the bit welded to the trailer

And presto, it's like new again, providing you keep it greased up ot will out last all of us

 

Paul 

[seyser]

I spoke with a local truck/trailer place that does this stuff everyday and they haven't seen one like this.

They expressed the same concerns with not having the axles tied together. They mentioned replacing bushings wouldn't be a problem but didn't think it would ever stay in alignment with the way its designed.

The trailer paint is original and I still see it on the axle stubs so cant tell if it left the builder this way or they were cut later at some point. I cant imagine a reason anyone would ever do that though.

Its a nice straight rust free trailer but I will probably keep looking at this point. I appreciate all the comments and insight on this!

 

[Geoff Weeks]

Other than the axles, that is one of the better looking trailers of that type I have seen. Most a beat all to blazes. That is why, if the prices is right, it might be worth fixing.

 

If the spindles were hollow, you could make a slug to insert into the old tube and cut a new tube to go in between, then when the new tube is in place, push the slug into position where the joint is from each side and weld up. 

 Not possible if the spindle is solid tho. 

Edited yesterday at 06:02 PM by Geoff Weeks

[seyser]

Yes that would probably be an option to make it right.

I bet the spindle is solid as the outer end is obviously turned down to accept the hub/bearings. Just my guess though?

Its a great trailer for someone who has the talent and equipment to do it. 

[Geoff Weeks]

Many are hollow, like the axle itself. The spindle is made to fit inside the tube then welded to the tube.  Depending on bearings, many spindles are hollow, allows for auto inflation, but more important reduces weight. Often a cup-plug is pressed in from the outside to keep oil from entering the axle tube.

 That is how "axle surgeons" repair axles, the cut the old spindle out and replace with a new one and weld.  

[seyser]

Gothcha, That makes sense!

It would be a proper way to make the repair. 

[Geoff Weeks]

I suppose you could remove one side of the walking beam, clean out the tube on the other side, and press in a tube that just fits the ID of the axle stub, then slid into the other side, when everything is bolted back up and in position weld the smaller inner tube to the outer axle tube on both sides.

 May not be good for 25K on the axle, but would be a whole lot better than how it sits now.

Edited yesterday at 06:21 PM by Geoff Weeks

[Swishy.]

Me thinks U need to ask your self

R U gunna use the trailer every day

How many ton U gunna haul

if U were to weld and join the axles as ridgid

The design of the suspension is a ridgid type that does not allow for side oscilation

imagie one wheel dropping down into a hole .............. Whats gunna happen

the are many Low Boy (low Loaders) in Australia with cut axles normally with Hyd suspension

Normally called full deck widners

cya

[seyser]

I managed to find a company that purchased all remaining stock of parts for this brand of trailer. They also had some parts made but have very few left. The gentleman I spoke with had knowledge of the brand. He mentions they produced thousands of trailers over the years. Many for municipal and specialty use. He said they made all their own suspensions and they were cutoff like that from the factory. 

I'm looking for a trailer to haul some vintage dozers to local shows. My D7 weighs 16 ton and that's probably the heaviest it would be used for.

[mrsmackpaul]

The quickest and cheapest option by far is to repair what is already there

Already have s cam brakes and thats most of the battle with older floats and smaller wheels 

I don't see fix this low loaders suspension up as a big drama 

I certainly wouldn't be reinventing the wheel here, just fix it up properly and it we ill out last any of us

And it easily be capable of shifting a old D7 3T or 17 A

 

Paul

[Geoff Weeks]

I agree, just add some tubing where it is cut.

I'm not sure what Swishy is referring to? this is what I mean by trunnion axles.

Kinda hard to see, but short stub axle supported on hyd suspension with 8 tires across. Low deck trailer on triple axle flatbed.

as to what happens when one axle on one side goes in a hole, the walking beam hits its stop on the other axle. It doesn't change much if the axles are solid, torques the tubes a bit and the 3 wheels not in a hole all carry some of the load.  There are many "single point" suspensions, I haven't seen one with a cut axle before.

Cozad:

 

 

Edited yesterday at 09:40 PM by Geoff Weeks

[mrsmackpaul]

Swishy is talking about trailers like this Drake float

Deck fully widens and axles are like the float mentioned in this thread

I have seen these style of floats, swing wing types

Also need to remember that the conditions in Australia are very different than the U.S.

Higher axle limits, loads can be much higher and gross weights are a lot higher and from my experience, the U.S. roads are much smoother

That been said, welding these axles together would then mean having to add pivots to the ends of the walking beams and the axles to allow them to oscillate

Everything is doable, but I feel it's gunna be much cheaper to fix whats there than cut it all out and start again

 

Paul

[Geoff Weeks]

Different deal than we have here.  Haven't seen a trailer like that in N/A.   He could just re-bush but I think it would be a short term fix, which was why that trailer didn't see a lot of use. 

Edited 9 hours ago by Geoff Weeks

[seyser]

The place I found that has parts has everything except they are out of the 24" pins that this trailer has. I could have those made so not a huge deal. Each beam gets 2 bushings, The pin has zerks on both ends and the grease exits where the bushings ride. 

The trailer would probably only see 750 miles a year so with new pins and bushings it probably wouldn't give me much trouble. Still pondering!

Edited 9 hours ago by seyser

[seyser]

[Geoff Weeks]

It does sound like it would work for you and as I said, that is one of the best condition of that type trailers I have seen.

The only time I have seen cut axles is with LP tank trailers, but they carry much less weight. That is the 1st on a low boy I have seen.

Tire wear could be helped by flipping the inside to outside at regular intervals, to even out the wear. 

 

[mrsmackpaul]

7 hours ago, Geoff Weeks said:

Different deal than we have here.  Haven't seen a trailer like that in N/A.   He could just re-bush but I think it would be a short term fix, which was why that trailer didn't see a lot of use. 

The Drake trailer shown is a 50 ton or 110,000 pound trailer with a dolly, or jeep or converter dolly or what ever it's called in the U.S. 

And thats a 50 ton load, so still a heavy duty trailer 

Our low loaders have a lot more ground clearance than the U.S. style and we don't get stuck on railway crossings but drivers occasionally hit a over head bridge as they seem to in the U.S. as well

5.4 meters (clearance sign on bridge in the video) is 17' 8" in the old measurements

4.6 or 15 feet is as tall as we can go with a normal permit, so old mate holding the steering wheel has some explaining to do 

I have shifted much higher than 15 feet but there's a lot more paperwork and I need to measure the route myself and check it myself and accept full responsibility myself 

I think near big cities in Australia the rules get even stricter, Swishman will have the good oil on that 

 

Paul

 

[Geoff Weeks]

Done a few 16'+ loads myself and they wear you out more than anything. 

As I said, never seen something like your Drake, looks interesting. 

[mrsmackpaul]

I agree, big loads are exhausting for me as I'm on edge the whole time

Even if I can drive okay, there's always a lot of people in a urgent hurry around me, and we only have a tiny population compared to the U.S.

Paul

[Geoff Weeks]

When I was doing O/D I was based out of the Chicago area. Only place that would be worse would be NYC.

This one was just shy of 16', 20 cyl EMD gen set 

168,000 lbs, 14' wide