CRD92/93 vs CRD202/203 carriers

[Joey Mack]

The dowels are like table legs. They are essential and must be the same length.  Assuming you are having one made.  Are you having one made ?

[BottleHauler84]

12 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

The dowels are like table legs. They are essential and must be the same length.  Assuming you are having one made.  Are you having one made ?

I gotcha. 

Well honestly,  id really be interested in having one made.  The plate itself looks pretty straight forward,  but I think what is gonna get me is the absolute correct measurements.  I also need to get a little more understanding how the dowels will work and the right height and specs on those but I feel like it could be done. 

Personally I think that plate would be easier for me to make. I have a Bridgeport mill and I think i could keep tinkering until I got it right.  Definitely easier than trying to make the power divider cam holding fixture in my opinion. 

[Joey Mack]

Take your measurements on an assembled carrier.  I'm telling you... if the bearing cage tool isn't right, you won't get the carrier to fit in the bowl.. 

[BottleHauler84]

Good idea. So just brainstorming here, but if I were to make the caging plate im guessing that it needs to fit nice a snug on the bearing caps of the carrier thats hasn't been taken apart yet?  

That should theoretically be the actual fitting measurements to make it work when workingon any of the carriers (92/93 and 202/203), like you suggested basically. 

 

If I make one, im making two and im sending one to you, JoJo!

[Joey Mack]

Keep in mind. The bull gear in a 200 series is wider than the 92/93 series. There is a cutout in the original tool. 

[BottleHauler84]

5 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

Keep in mind. The bull gear in a 200 series is wider than the 92/93 series. There is a cutout in the original tool. 

Thats a good point. Ill definitely have to pay attention to that when I start.

Joey,  how thick of steel would you guess that tool is made out of? 1/2" or maybe 3/4"?

[fjh]

14 minutes ago, BottleHauler84 said:

Thats a good point. Ill definitely have to pay attention to that when I start.

Joey,  how thick of steel would you guess that tool is made out of? 1/2" or maybe 3/4"?

1/2 inch will work 5/8 or 3/4 would be best!  ! We did have that tool it was very valuable ! It would guaranty the ears would fit the housing! with out it it was a crap shoot! after setting the preload  you could verify you had a fit by lightly turning the tool on the diff If it was tight you could take a brass or aluminum  drift and wack the caps to get the cleacance to move the ring! Defiantly a must have!

[BottleHauler84]

@fjh does that tool fit snug around all 4 bearing caps once you put it on them or is there some clearance for it to move a little bit? 

The only info I have about it is just the pictures of it in the manual.  Unfortunately, I've never gotten to use one to see it up close. Just curious. 

[Joey Mack]

its 2 bearing caps that have 2 ears on each, so 4 points of contact on the bearings. 

[Geoff Weeks]

I'd measure the inside of a housing to get the ID of the tool. OD is not important. From what I see, having never done one, its job is to hold the bearing retainers in the position they will be in, when in the axle housing, while adjusting the bearing pre-load.  The legs hold the plate at the correct height on the bearing retainer, nothing more.

With all "special tools" when prints aren't available, the thing to do is understand what the tool is doing, in this case, holding the bearing retainer in the position it will be in when installed in the housing. Because the bearing sticks down from the case, it will tend to spread if not externally supported when bearing pre-load is applied, the tool does this by being the same ID as the axle housing.

Measure the housing where the "shoes" of the bearing retainer will ride, in an X pattern, have the plate machined to that exact dimension, then cut reliefs for the gear to clear. Leg height should hold the plate at the "shoe" of the bearing retainer.

With prices north of $3000 for the tool, A good machine shop should be able to make one for less money. If you have a axle housing, and can bring it and a drop in to them and explain what you need, They should be able to make an accurate tool for the job.  I have a guy by me that would likely do it for a few hundred, but would need the housing and drop in to know what he is being asked to make. Drawing would be best but I doubt  you'll get your hands on the OEM drawings.

[BottleHauler84]

1 hour ago, Joey Mack said:

its 2 bearing caps that have 2 ears on each, so 4 points of contact on the bearings. 

I dont know why I said 4 "bearing caps"....that was stupid.  I ment to say the 2 bearing caps, with the 4 ears just as you said that. Thanks for correcting me. 

[BottleHauler84]

1 hour ago, Geoff Weeks said:

I'd measure the inside of a housing to get the ID of the tool. OD is not important. From what I see, having never done one, its job is to hold the bearing retainers in the position they will be in, when in the axle housing, while adjusting the bearing pre-load.  The legs hold the plate at the correct height on the bearing retainer, nothing more.

With all "special tools" when prints aren't available, the thing to do is understand what the tool is doing, in this case, holding the bearing retainer in the position it will be in when installed in the housing. Because the bearing sticks down from the case, it will tend to spread if not externally supported when bearing pre-load is applied, the tool does this by being the same ID as the axle housing.

Measure the housing where the "shoes" of the bearing retainer will ride, in an X pattern, have the plate machined to that exact dimension, then cut reliefs for the gear to clear. Leg height should hold the plate at the "shoe" of the bearing retainer.

With prices north of $3000 for the tool, A good machine shop should be able to make one for less money. If you have a axle housing, and can bring it and a drop in to them and explain what you need, They should be able to make an accurate tool for the job.  I have a guy by me that would likely do it for a few hundred, but would need the housing and drop in to know what he is being asked to make. Drawing would be best but I doubt  you'll get your hands on the OEM drawings.

Thats what I gathered thus far. A big  Thanks to you guys here explaining the purpose of the tool I now understand exactly what its purpose is. I have rebuilt eaton and rockwell diffs quite a bit and this procedure isn't something you have to do obviously being a hypoid setup with them, so this concept was a bit foreign to me. 

 

Now that I get it, as Joey suggested,  one of the most important aspects of this tool will be the height of the dowel pins or support pins and being perfect even. Im definitely going to get some measurements off some empty axle housings I have and check measurements off of a couple 202 and 92 series carriers i have sitting around. 

Edited 2 hours ago by BottleHauler84

[Joey Mack]

The housings are the same

[Geoff Weeks]

17 minutes ago, BottleHauler84 said:

 

 

Now that I get it, as Joey suggested,  one of the most important aspects of this tool will be the height of the dowel pins or support pins and being perfect even. Im definitely going to get some measurements off some empty axle housings I have and check measurements off of a couple 202 and 92 series carriers i have sitting around. 

The ID of the tool is the most important, the legs just have to hold the tool in position so the plate is 90 deg to the housing base and at the right height to hold the bearing retainers in position

Single reduction sets like the Eaton and Rockwell have large webs on the case 1/2 of the bearing retainer, so they don't flex outward when setting pre-load. Once in the housing, all are restrained by the housing so the don't spread under load. Be it Mack, Eaton or Rockwell.

Mack, due to its double reduction and spur gear design, has a smaller case and less room to reinforce the bearing retainer area when it is out of the housing. 

It has been many years since I had a Mack drop in, out of the housing, so I could be off base. BUT if you have an old housing that is no good, I wonder if you could cut away the bowl enough to use an old housing for the tool? Just leave enough to work with of the old housing, set the drop-out in and set the pre-load and bearing retainer bolt torque then drop in the trucks housing.

[fjh]

2 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said:

The ID of the tool is the most important, the legs just have to hold the tool in position so the plate is 90 deg to the housing base and at the right height to hold the bearing retainers in position

Single reduction sets like the Eaton and Rockwell have large webs on the case 1/2 of the bearing retainer, so they don't flex outward when setting pre-load. Once in the housing, all are restrained by the housing so the don't spread under load. Be it Mack, Eaton or Rockwell.

Mack, due to its double reduction and spur gear design, has a smaller case and less room to reinforce the bearing retainer area when it is out of the housing. 

It has been many years since I had a Mack drop in, out of the housing, so I could be off base. BUT if you have an old housing that is no good, I wonder if you could cut away the bowl enough to use an old housing for the tool? Just leave enough to work with of the old housing, set the drop-out in and set the pre-load and bearing retainer bolt torque then drop in the trucks housing.

You would have to be carefull not to distort the housing while cutting! duno if it would work! you also have to have room to work the adjusting nut on the carrier bearing!

[Geoff Weeks]

Just now, fjh said:

You would have to be carefull not to distort the housing while cutting! duno if it would work! you also have to have room to work the adjusting nut on the carrier bearing!

I don't know either, just a thought (may be a bad one) but I would think the housing would be more resilient than the plate, afterall the housing has to hold it under full load, the plate does not.

[Joey Mack]

given the procedures to set tooth pattern and preload, there would not be enough of the housing left because you need to reach in with tools and strike the bull gear with a dead blow hammer to make adjustments. The thin metal wall of the bowl would likely warp during the cutting process and then not be stable enough for the assembly procedure. Its not a bad idea, I just dont see it holding up. and a 200 series carrier has to be taken apart during the preload and tooth pattern procedures between the spur gear and bull gear, and the bevel gear and bevel pinion, because of the spur shaft housing. A 92/93 series can be done as a complete assembly. 

[Geoff Weeks]

It has been over 40 years since I was "inside" one, so I admit I don't know (remember) the insides of the housing. I'll defer to those that do! Only a thought, and I guess a bad one!

[Joey Mack]

I wouldnt say 'Bad'..