2003 Mack CX 613 wastegate derate issues

[Walkyrie_Engineering]

been having this problem for quite some time now, I keep getting a 4-5 flash code and the engine seems to lose power (naturally right before the crest of a hill or right when you most need the boost) I replaced the turbo, so i know it's not a mechanical issue, and checked the airline going from the manifold to the wastegate and no apparent leaks and pushing air through the line actuates the wastegate. so at this point I'm not sure where else to go manifold pressure gauge reads boost pressure is it possible that the boost pressure sensor may be faulty reading a higher psi than is actually there?

[Mackpro]

Everything on the CCRS 460 has to be perfect to keep it from over boosting and causing the dreaded 4-5 code and derate. Even being a new turbo it could still not be calibrated correctly and over boosting. 

[Mackpro]

https://manualzz.com/doc/31850982/service-bulletin Here is the bulletin on adjusting the waste gate . Also trying a new manifold pressure sensor might be something to try first . 

[Joey Mack]

A while ago, I had the pleasure of taking on one of these issues after 2 mechanics put a turbo, and eecu on the engine. I drove the truck and right in the sweet spot, it would dump the boost and lay down..  After a few days of scratching my head, I checked the 'new' boost sensor part number, and it was the wrong one for that engine. I found a chart for the boost sensors, and saw that the one in the engine had an operating range that was 1.5 volts different from the one that belonged in it..  I wish I could remember the chart and part number.. I think 64MT???  .  Iput the correct boost sensor in ,    and,,,,  just like that it was fixed.. jojo

[Mackpro]

Yep. I know the ASET AC engine takes a special boost pressure sensor . I believe the  ETECH, CCRS and the ASET AI all take the same part number . They all look the exact same and it’s easy to put the wrong one in . And yes it won’t run right it if you do put the wrong part number one in. 

[Walkyrie_Engineering]

On 5/31/2022 at 10:44 PM, Mackpro said:

Everything on the CCRS 460 has to be perfect to keep it from over boosting and causing the dreaded 4-5 code and derate. Even being a new turbo it could still not be calibrated correctly and over boosting. 

I appreciate your help, I just realized i gave the truck information and didn't say anything about the engine its an E7 460, to be honest I'm not sure about whether its an etech, ccrs or ASET, its just the simple mechanical turbo, not the Holset one that's on the newer MP8's if that helps, i was leaning towards maybe the boost sensor was off since i cant seem to find anything wrong elsewhere, also i wasn't able to pull up the service bulletin you posted

[Joey Mack]

I figured a 2003 CX  was a CXN with an ASET CEGR..  Is yours a CX with a CCRS?    pics of the data plate on the front valve cover would help...  jojo

[Walkyrie_Engineering]

2 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

I figured a 2003 CX  was a CXN with an ASET CEGR..  Is yours a CX with a CCRS?    pics of the data plate on the front valve cover would help...  jojo

so i'll admit my naivety on this particular subject what is CCRS and CEGR, I'm guessing CEGR is EGR related? unfortunately my driver for this truck left on a run this afternoon 

[Joey Mack]

I cant write the book,, just , when you get a chance, take pics of the turbo area..  wide shots..  jojo

[Walkyrie_Engineering]

9 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

I cant write the book,, just , when you get a chance, take pics of the turbo area..  wide shots..  jojo

I do happen to have a photo

[Joey Mack]

ccrs

 

[Walkyrie_Engineering]

So Mackpro is most likely on the right trail with his first comments?

[Joey Mack]

fuse 41 is the eecu fuse, fuse 46 is an ignition feed,, also, if you have a 2-2 code... it needs to be fixed first..  I reading my V-Mac III book, not coming off the top of my head..    

[Joey Mack]

we did mention boost sensors.. the wrong one will cause this issue...  

[Walkyrie_Engineering]

On 6/6/2022 at 8:37 PM, Joey Mack said:

fuse 41 is the eecu fuse, fuse 46 is an ignition feed,, also, if you have a 2-2 code... it needs to be fixed first..  I reading my V-Mac III book, not coming off the top of my head..    

not getting a 2-2 code just a 4-1 and 6-1 but thats another demon altogether ive got that traced down to a bad ground off the starter this 4-5 code has be going on for years now

[Joey Mack]

if the 4-5 code has an FMI -2,  the issue is within the intake system.  If the FMI is '7' Look at the mechanical parts of the waste gate.  ....I really think you need to confirm the Boost sensor part number... jojo

Edited June 8, 2022 by Joey Mack
More content needed

[Walkyrie_Engineering]

On 6/8/2022 at 6:13 AM, Joey Mack said:

if the 4-5 code has an FMI -2,  the issue is within the intake system.  If the FMI is '7' Look at the mechanical parts of the waste gate.  ....I really think you need to confirm the Boost sensor part number... jojo

I agree with that it may be the sensor, I planned on checking that out as soon as my driver gets back tomorrow.

[Woodhall]

Hey walkyrie_engineering  what did you find out about the 4-5 code on the mack

[Woodhall]

Is the Bull Dog pulling strong now?

[Walkyrie_Engineering]

On 7/2/2022 at 3:49 PM, Woodhall said:

Hey walkyrie_engineering  what did you find out about the 4-5 code on the mack

unfortunately, when I went to pick up the sensor last week and get handed a temperature sensor. Naturally they don't have them in stock and had to re-order the part, I planned on picking it up this morning and getting it installed before my driver heads out. I Will keep you updated though. 

[Walkyrie_Engineering]

8 hours ago, Walkyrie_Engineering said:

unfortunately, when I went to pick up the sensor last week and get handed a temperature sensor. Naturally they don't have them in stock and had to re-order the part, I planned on picking it up this morning and getting it installed before my driver heads out. I Will keep you updated though. 

replaced the sensor, and i was just told we're still getting the code. 

[Joey Mack]

ok, but how is the performance??   jojo

[Walkyrie_Engineering]

still the same, it derates as soon as it gets over 30 psi, my next attempt was going to see if maybe i can adjust and calibrate the wastegate out a little to compensate, I'm not too confidant in it as I've replaced the entire turbo assembly already trying to deal with this issue and I'm still having it. I've replaced the turbo, no air leaks, mechanically everything works, I replaced the sensor, if I can't calibrate the wastegate somehow the only thing left seems to be something wrong in the ECM and that brings on a whole new can of worms. it's supposed to be putting out 460hp but it feels like a prostar pulling down the road, its like trying to pull with a pickup. way too much time spent at WOT just trying to climb hills in Iowa and Illinois I don't know if its the engine just not putting out as much power as it should or if I need to upgrade it to a 13 speed from the 10 speed or a combination of both, but I Know that a Mack should perform better than this is currently

[Joey Mack]

is the wastegate hose direct to the intake manifold or is there a control valve that sends air to the wastegate actuator?  I seemed to have forgotten this setup for some reason..  sorry.  jojo

[Walkyrie_Engineering]

8 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

is the wastegate hose direct to the intake manifold or is there a control valve that sends air to the wastegate actuator?  I seemed to have forgotten this setup for some reason..  sorry.  jojo

It's directly from the Intake manifold to the wastegate actuator.

[Joey Mack]

so ...   how does it know how to dump boost early??  is the actuator wrong or weak.?  jojo