Mack 2v 300 Fuel Engine Problem

[jakebrake13]

Hello all new here! from what i have read this site seems to the most knowledgeable site out here!!

On to the problem...

I bought a 81 RS 600 2v 350 twin stick, Truck ran great got it home drove it a few times and it seem to start miss firing then blowing white/gray smoke. smell of raw diesel fuel and died Can restart with Starter fluid and it idles really fast no more miss firing but is just dumping in fuel.

I thought it might be a lost injection tip, pulled all 6 all looked fine checked rack and valves all look to be it order.

I did notice that in the valve train there appears to be a lot of soot in the oil between 2&3 cylinder and only there?!?

Any help would be great

Was hoping to let wife pull truck in upcoming truck pull

[fjh]

Hello all new here! from what i have read this site seems to the most knowledgeable site out here!!

On to the problem...

I bought a 81 RS 600 2v 350 twin stick, Truck ran great got it home drove it a few times and it seem to start miss firing then blowing white/gray smoke. smell of raw diesel fuel and died Can restart with Starter fluid and it idles really fast no more miss firing but is just dumping in fuel.

I thought it might be a lost injection tip, pulled all 6 all looked fine checked rack and valves all look to be it order.

I did notice that in the valve train there appears to be a lot of soot in the oil between 2&3 cylinder and only there?!?

Any help would be great

Was hoping to let wife pull truck in upcoming truck pull

Is the truck engine brake equiped??

Could be sticking on!

[jakebrake13]

no engine brake

[fjh]

no engine brake

I would by pass the primary filter and run from a clean

pail of fuel Also remove and check the secondary filter for poor fuel quality.Also

If this truck is equiped with a tack drive mounted transfer pump they were a pain!

[jakebrake13]

I would by pass the primary filter and run from a clean

pail of fuel Also remove and check the secondary filter for poor fuel quality.Also

If this truck is equiped with a tack drive mounted transfer pump they were a pain!

Heading back to shop to try these tips , will post udates thanks

[fjh]

Heading back to shop to try these tips , will post udates thanks

Good Luck.

If these don't help !Could you supply me with the type of fuel injection pump IE: american bosch(AMBAC)

Or robert bosch

[jakebrake13]

All the tags are missing off pump not sure which pump is which any way to tell?

Direct fuel no filters no progress

thanks guys for help

[fjh]

this is AMBAC

http://www.adiesel.us/pumps.php

Robert bosch

Simular to this

http://www.alldiesel.com/bosch_pump.htm

[jakebrake13]

AMBAC for sure then. Thanks alot!!

Try to get her fired today and all i got was thick gray smoke like an old wood burner so thick it made the shop as dark as night.

[fjh]

AMBAC for sure then. Thanks alot!!

Try to get her fired today and all i got was thick gray smoke like an old wood burner so thick it made the shop as dark as night.

Have you checked the turbo and the air cleaner plumbing for birds nests?

remove the air intake from the inlet manifold and try to start it! IF that don,t do it then,

I got a feeling your pump drive coupling may have broken and its now out of time.

You have smoke that tells me you ar getting some fuel, and no air Or poorly timed fuel.

I have seen the drive couplings break Usually its clean and wont turn the pump but it may be ragged enough to turn the pump in ths case.

[jakebrake13]

Have you checked the turbo and the air cleaner plumbing for birds nests?

remove the air intake from the inlet manifold and try to start it! IF that don,t do it then,

I got a feeling your pump drive coupling may have broken and its now out of time.

You have smoke that tells me you ar getting some fuel, and no air Or poorly timed fuel.

I have seen the drive couplings break Usually its clean and wont turn the pump but it may be ragged enough to turn the pump in ths case.

Ok Had air intake lines off last go around leaning toward pump coupling if so what and how do i go about putting her back in time. Going to try and remove pump tonight but not sure if i should but engine in time first?!?

Thanks for all you help I do have spare pump for parts

[Rob]

Ok Had air intake lines off last go around leaning toward pump coupling if so what and how do i go about putting her back in time. Going to try and remove pump tonight but not sure if i should but engine in time first?!?

Thanks for all you help I do have spare pump for parts

The pump will only slide into it's driving gear one way due to a keyway. As long as you don't turn the engine over when the pump is off, you will not have to adjust main engine timing. If the coupling has destroyed itself the engine will have to be timed after parts replacement of course but it really is not too difficult to do with a service manual. Should you not have a manual with the proceedure available to you, I can copy and send it to you.

If you do the timing be sure to do a complete tune up including spill port timing, compression check with analysis, (there I go again!), run the overhead, and change fluids and filters. No sense once your in there to not do the job right! If you could have the engine or chassis strapped to a dynamometer to ensure she performs as engineered.

Maintenance is cheap insurance in the long run.

Rob

[Lmackattack]

it does sound like a pump or timing issue. grey smoke suggest its getting fuel just at the wrong time.

when you pulled the injectors,did you by chance have them checked for there crack pressure?

[Rob]

it does sound like a pump or timing issue. grey smoke suggest its getting fuel just at the wrong time.

when you pulled the injectors,did you by chance have them checked for there crack pressure?

I forgot in my post to check the injectors while they were out!!

Rob

[fjh]

The pump coupling is or should be keyed to the pump shaft DO NOT remove the little round front cover

in front of the engine and tamper with any bolts if you want to preserve your timimg ,just undo the the three that hold the pump to the block as mentioned the splined coupling has a dowel! the pump will only go in one way easily DON't FORCE it or try pulling it in with the bolts! Apon reassembly assemble with a new gasket the gasket will come with 2 holes in it one big one small!Cut the gasket from the outside of the big hole to the outside of the small oil return hole at the bottom both sides and remove the v shaped peice this will put a stop to any possible oil leaks at the gasket site!DO NOT JUST USE silicone! You'll hate yourself.

[r600]

The pump coupling is or should be keyed to the pump shaft DO NOT remove the little round front cover

in front of the engine and tamper with any bolts if you want to preserve your timimg ,just undo the the three that hold the pump to the block as mentioned the splined coupling has a dowel! the pump will only go in one way easily DON't FORCE it or try pulling it in with the bolts! Apon reassembly assemble with a new gasket the gasket will come with 2 holes in it one big one small!Cut the gasket from the outside of the big hole to the outside of the small oil return hole at the bottom both sides and remove the v shaped peice this will put a stop to any possible oil leaks at the gasket site!DO NOT JUST USE silicone! You'll hate yourself.

fjh,had the pump off my truck ,and the new gasket from mack already had the gasket make that way so i didnt have to modify it,cheers adrian

[jakebrake13]

Well here we go again...

Pulled pump and coupler is fine. with pressure gauge on fuel line out of fuel filters before injection pump have 35 psi , with line put back on pump and cranking i get fuel out of #6 valve only in small spurts. if i unbolt fuel pump from injection pump and crank over seems to pump fuel out all valves and seem to be alot more???? very confused starting to think C-4 and walk away!

also any thoughts on really sooty oil in # three rocker arm area?

[HK Trucking]

also any thoughts on really sooty oil in # three rocker arm area?

Worn exhaust valve guide(s).

One time I pulled the valve covers off an ENDT676 and the exhaust valve guides were so bad there was gritty soot type material all over the place in there.

[jakebrake13]

Worn exhaust valve guide(s).

One time I pulled the valve covers off an ENDT676 and the exhaust valve guides were so bad there was gritty soot type material all over the place in there.

Great those we can deal with i was afraid we had lost a piston or something!?!

Motor has great compression but the soot now makes since.

thank you

[fjh]

Great those we can deal with i was afraid we had lost a piston or something!?!

Motor has great compression but the soot now makes since.

thank you

you have a real strange problem here alright!

I still beleive you got a timing or pump problem!Just by your discription of what happened at the start!

To check the timing set the engine on valves rocking on #6( valves closed on #No 1 )pull the engine up to apox 30 degrees on the flywheel or damper pointer marks.remove #1 delivery valve with 11/4 1 5/16 or 1 3/8 12 point wrench on the big nut on take it out remove the spring and valve and reinstall the nut just snug .get some hose to fit the inlet fitting hook it on and blow into the tube fuel / air will flow from #no one keep blowing and have somone slowly turn the engine till the flow stops right where the flow stops is where it is timed.BE sure that the fuel stop is full on and the throtle is at idle for this!

this will rule out the timing thing I got in my brain anyway!

The bearings in the fuel pump may be on their way out causeing the timing to be all over the place.

For the symtoms you have I would suspect to see it at near zero for timing ,the engine should be at somwhere between 15 - 24

[Rob]

To check the timing set the engine on valves rocking on #6( valves closed on #No 1 )pull the engine up to apox 30 degrees on the flywheel or damper pointer marks.remove #1 delivery valve with 11/4 1 5/16 or 1 3/8 12 point wrench on the big nut on take it out remove the spring and valve and reinstall the nut just snug .get some hose to fit the inlet fitting hook it on and blow into the tube fuel / air will flow from #no one keep blowing and have somone slowly turn the engine till the flow stops right where the flow stops is where it is timed.BE sure that the fuel stop is full on and the throtle is at idle for this!

Is this not referred to as "spill port timing" any longer?

Rob

[jakebrake13]

you have a real strange problem here alright!

I still beleive you got a timing or pump problem!Just by your discription of what happened at the start!

To check the timing set the engine on valves rocking on #6( valves closed on #No 1 )pull the engine up to apox 30 degrees on the flywheel or damper pointer marks.remove #1 delivery valve with 11/4 1 5/16 or 1 3/8 12 point wrench on the big nut on take it out remove the spring and valve and reinstall the nut just snug .get some hose to fit the inlet fitting hook it on and blow into the tube fuel / air will flow from #no one keep blowing and have somone slowly turn the engine till the flow stops right where the flow stops is where it is timed.BE sure that the fuel stop is full on and the throtle is at idle for this!

this will rule out the timing thing I got in my brain anyway!

The bearings in the fuel pump may be on their way out causeing the timing to be all over the place.

For the symtoms you have I would suspect to see it at near zero for timing ,the engine should be at somwhere between 15 - 24

Back to the shop again hope this works

I have another pump that came with truck all the delivery valves are out of are the as easy changing 123? if so i will throw that pump in

thanks again

[Rob]

Back to the shop again hope this works

I have another pump that came with truck all the delivery valves are out of are the as easy changing 123? if so i will throw that pump in

thanks again

They may or may not interchange. I would be concerned about the spare pump as to why it is missing it's parts. The delivery valves are little check valves that keep the high pressure fuel in the lines to the injectors from bleeding off. If they are removed and the openings unplugged, the innards of the pump will be exposed and this is not a good thing.

It sounds like you need to pull the pump and have it test run on a bench before going much further. If you do this, take the injection nozzels also so they can be run and calibrated together as a matched set.

Rob

[fjh]

Is this not referred to as "spill port timing" any longer?

Rob

Rob I guess that is what you could call it!

We have a rarly used hi preasure timer at work that requires just hooking it to the inlet and pluging off the outlet it builds enough preasure to lift the delivery valves off the seats!I much rather use the above method my self!

[fjh]

Back to the shop again hope this works

I have another pump that came with truck all the delivery valves are out of are the as easy changing 123? if so i will throw that pump in

thanks again

Nope wouldn't do that!Like Rob said TOOOO iffy!Check what you have first!

I could be full blawhoee but what you discribe soundslike a timing issue

Having said that !! I have never seen an engine like this just start puffing out gray smoke !Its usually a gradual thing if a fuel pump fails. or a miss on one cyl or quits all together.Its kind of a mistery problem you have here.Turbo OK???!