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NSC standand 11B in Ontario Canada


85snowdog
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It seems that Ontario is one of the last provinces to implement the National Safety Code in our annual truck and bus safety inspections.

The only major difference from what I understand, is that drums have to be removed and brake linings and drums have to be measured and documented. It was rumoured that trucks with bud wheels had to have their hubs removed to check bearings. But I can't find any proof of that.

My question is….

Is anyone familiar with this? I was thinking if I removed my backing plates to measure my drums and shoes, if that might be acceptable.

Because all my trucks have dayton wheels (spiders in Australia),I hate to see wheels pulled for no reason. But it might be something I have to accept .

Hopefully a fellow Canadian can fill me in. I would also be interested in how they do this in other parts of the world.

Thanks,

Keith

Keith 

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Get the tin opener... can of worms about to be served...

http://ccmta.ca/images/pdf-documents-english/CCMTA-PMVI-Report-PRTD.pdf

section 3A

BC has its own version..very similar to other provinces, some say a bit more advanced..

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse/vehicle_inspections/PDF/BrakeInspectionWorksheet.pdf

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse/vehicle_inspections/PDF/AirBrakesFAQ.pdf

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse/vehicle_inspections.htm

the new Vehicle Inspection Manual in BC was put out in 2011, I still have my older copy at home but as they charge too much for the new one I usually read my employers one as he is required to have them on-site as we are an approved inspection facility...

CVSE (Commercial Vehicle Safety Enforcement) of BC cracked down recently on "vertically integrated companies" faking inspections... one guy signed off 150 in one day...!!!!

so... now we "authorised inspectors" are independant of our employers and have to authorise the electronic form on the day and again within a month with our secure password... fun!!!

brakes...

our new form cvse0014/120125 requires the info as per the "worksheet" above... from memory the rules for drum shoe measurement are based on the dust covers.. if they can be removed we can measure the drums... if they cannot be removed and the owner can provide documentation that they were measured within 24 months by a licenced mechanic we can then perform a visual inspection and lining measurement through the spyhole... if none of the above, then we pull the wheels and drums....

I will go dig up the book to confirm all that when I go back on shift next wednesday...

I've been doing 4 wheel disc buses lately.. pads are measured off the dash and we can get to the rotor to measure.. just.. so they are very simple.

If you can find a copy of the Ontario Inspection Manual, section 3A, it should state the mandatory measuring requirements....

here in BC if I can take off the backplates, measure and inspect, measure cam rotation and pushrod travel, then I'm good....

with a big hill called "The Rockies" our CVSE are pretty rigid on brakes.... and I am hearing less about brake fail accidents and cam-overs, so maybe the message is getting through...

hope this helps a bit... nice to hear that Ontario is finally joining the rest of Canada..!!!

BC Mack

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the guy that does my safeties a percentage of brake lining left on the form and the only thing he ever gauges is the tires. I guess it depends how fussy they want to get. When I'm working in a truck getting it ready to safety I've always just done a visual inspection on drums and if they look clean no visual cracks or ridges cut in them I'll re use them otherwise I replace and If I change drums I always use new lining. Bearings I check end play but don't take the hubs off unless end play seems excessive or a seal is leaking. But if you want to get technical and go by the MTO's big brown book you need to take everything apart and inspect and drums need to be gauged. But I know very few mechanics that actually do.

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BADDOG, from what I have been told, and some of the info I have got from the MTO site, starting Jan. 01 , mechanics are required to perform the annual safety inspections to the new NSC standard 11b. Its a standard that the rest of Canada uses. The main difference will be the measuring of drums, linings, and camshaft rotation. This information has to be kept by the inspection garage that measured them and produced if asked for by the MTO.

I have been trying to find out everything I can about it because it means a safety will go from a hundred bucks to a thousand bucks, if a mechanic pulls every hub to measure everything. They are saying an hour a wheel plus new wheel seals.

Unfortunately, no one will say for sure what is expected. Even the MTO inspectors say to read about it on the website, and won't say what they expect.

There must be some truth to the wheels having to be pulled because shops around me have already started to use the new standard for there inspections.

It is a fact I know very little about this new standard, and I am just hoping to get enough dialogue going that I could figure it out.

In the past I have always done things the same as you. Got my truck ready, took it in , and they inspected it. Was easy.

Keith

Keith 

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Before you start losing sleep over this... check your backplates to ensure they can be removed "easily"... if the bolts are rusted solid you will end up paying for a drum pull, the inspector isn't going to risk breaking anything.

if you visit a "friendly" inspection station ask them to let you read the inspection manual, they have to have one as well as the motor vehicle act (though that is probably on-line)... your concern is "truck 3A"... that will give the inspector the guidance and standards for pass/fail.. I assume most of the other chapters are currently done, just the upgrade of the inspection of the brakes.

not sure how deep into it you are in Ontario, we have 'approved facility and 'approved inspectors' with variable licencing for cars, bikes, buses, trucks and alternate fuel and everything is recorded electronicly.

it was confusing here too when it tightened up in 2001ish, now with the electronic input ie no writing, our id number and password eliminates the fraud... not saying that no dodgy guys are out there, but the time of day is recorded and at an average of 1.5hrs per inspection they can tell if an inspector does too many in a day.

wheel bearings are checked... section 4, steering, item 4... it is no more than a wheel wiggle with a bar, item 5, king pins done at same time... limits are oem or default standard in the manual.

the only big change that I saw was "serious structual or body damage" which had to be sent to an approved facility and that part of the inspection signed off by a certified bodyman. This was mostly an issue for unibody cars that were made out of two or three others after an accident.

just about all employers in BC now require 'red seal' for mechanics and an 'inspector' ticket, it covers liability insurance issues... I work on transit buses which won't allow any non licenced person other than a registered apprentice to work on it...

BC Mack

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Ok I wasn't aware that things were changing. Thanks for the info. I'll have to ask my friend that does my safeties what info he knows.

don't worry... even a large company like ours with 1200 buses got caught out... we were using the default for kingpins 100thou lift, great for Rockwell... but then we got MAN axles and nobody in engineering thought about looking up the OEM spec... this carried on for a few years until someone was talking to MAN on another matter and discovered the limit was 13thou... panic spread, all king pins were measured, 400 over limit.... dot,man and engineering evaluated our operation and decreed new limit to be 33thou... so only 200 over limit..!!!! big campaign, many dollars spent, new forcasting tool made up... but no $$ fine as we went to them so officially we were not caught..!!!

yes, changes are here.... we used to turn our drums, 14.500 drum can be turned and max limit is 14.833 per oem with X and XX shoes with 3 sizes of roller... now, all thrown away and new std size only... shame, I used to enjoy turning drums and cutting linings to match... progress I suppose.

BC Mack

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The new standard was supposed to be used starting Jan. 01 2014 but they extended it one year , so companies could be better prepared.

I have a good handle on it now. Thanks BC Mack, you got me pointed in the right direction.

If case some of you Ontario guys are interested, here is a guideline to the new inspections. The new items are marked with an asterisk *

Its from the MTO site

Keith

Ontario Inspection Guidelines
Technicians' Activities - Truck

Below is a high level outline of the inspection activities involved in conducting an annual commercial motor vehicle inspection for the National Safety Code 11B Periodic Commercial Motor Vehicle Inspections (National Standard). The intent of this document is to provide a guideline to assist inspection technicians in understanding the requirements of the national standard. This overview does not represent the inspection itself or decisions made regarding interpretation of the standard.

Activities listed below are areas / systems of a truck and truck tractor to be inspected annually, focusing on the inspection activities of a technician, it does not include the rejection criteria for the vehicle. Detailed inspection and rejection criteria are contained in NSC11B.

The asterisk * represents criteria that were not covered by the previous Ontario inspection criteria. All items require a visual inspection where indicated, an ‘operational check’ requires a physical inspection to confirm the item is operating as intended.

Please Note: To see the details of this inspection see Regulation 611 "Safety Inspection” at the following link: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_900611_e.htmand copies of the inspection can be obtained for a cost at the Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators (CCMTA) at the following link:http://www.ccmta.ca/english/producstandservices/publications/publications.cfm. For further clarifications see Ontario Guidelines for the National Standard.

A. Inspection items/activities 1. Power Train Visual inspection of the following components/systems:
  1. Accelerator Pedal (operational check)
  2. Fuel System (ON criteria in Reg 611)
  3. Exhaust System
  4. Drive Shaft (may require manual check of u-joints & hanger bearing)
  1. Clutch (operational check) *
  2. Engine/Transmission Mount *
  3. Engine Shut Down (operational check)
  4. Neutral Safety Switch (operational check)

* Items not required by previous Ontario inspection criteria


2. Suspension Visual inspection of the following components/systems:
  1. Suspension Attachments
  2. Leaf Springs and Attachments (may require raising the vehicle to unload the spring)
  3. Coil Spring Suspension
  4. Torsion Bar Suspension
  5. Rubber Load Cushion
  6. Tandem Axle Walking Beams
  1. Air Suspension (may require raising the vehicle to unload the suspension)
  2. Air Suspended Non-Driving Axle (operational check)
  3. Self-Steering Axles (operational check & measurement of kingpin condition)
  4. Shock Absorbers

* Items not required by previous Ontario inspection criteria


3. Hydraulic Brake System Visual inspection of the following components/systems:
  1. Parking Brakes (operational check)
  2. Dual Brake System Hydraulic Circuit Check (operational check)
  3. Hydraulic System
  4. Hydraulic Brake Leakage & Pedal Reserve (operational check)
  5. Hydraulic Assisted Brake System (operational check)
  6. Vacuum Assisted Power Brakes (operational check)
  7. Vacuum System (operational check)
  1. Vacuum Booster (operational check)
  2. Vacuum Reserve (operational check)
  3. Vacuum Pump (operational check of gauge)
  4. Drum Brakes (requires drum removal in almost all cases, drums to be measured & operational check)*
  5. Disc Brakes (requires rotor thickness to be measured & operational check) *
  6. Proportioning Valve (operational check) *
  7. Anti-Lock Brakes (check of malfunction lamp)*

* Items not required by previous Ontario inspection criteria


3A. Air Brakes Visual inspection of the following components/systems:
  1. Air Compressor
  2. compressor Air-Build Time (requires timed test)
  3. Air Governor (operational check)
  4. Low Air Pressure Warning System (operational check)
  5. Air System Leakage (operational check)
  6. Compressed Air Reserve (operational check)
  7. Air Tank and Check Valves (operational check) *
  8. Treadle Valve (operational check)
  9. Trailer Brake Hand Control Valve *
  10. Quick Release Valves (operational check) *
  11. Relay/Limiting/Proportioning Valves (operational check) *
  12. Tractor Protection System (operational check) *
  13. Air System Control Valves *
  1. Air Parking & Emergency Brake Application (operational check)
  2. Air Brake Components
  3. Mechanical Components
  4. Brake Camshafts
  5. Camshaft Rotation (requires specific test process) *
  6. Drum Brakes (requires lining thickness measurements to be taken and recorded) *
  7. Brake Drums (requires drum diameter measurements to be taken and recorded) *
  8. Brake Adjustment (requires pushrod stroke of cam-actuated brakes, or travel of wedge brake lining, to be measured and recorded) *
  9. Disc Brakes (requires rotor and pad thickness to be measured and recorded) *
  10. Anti-Lock Brake System (operational check of malfunction lamp, when OEM equipped) *

* Items not required by previous Ontario inspection criteria


4. Steering Visual inspection of the following components/systems:
  1. Steering Wheel Test (operational check)
  2. Travel (operational check)
  3. Steering Linkage (operational check)
  4. NO LONGER REQUIRED
  1. Kingpin Play (requires raising the wheels)
  2. Ball Joints (manual inspection)
  3. Power Steering
  4. Telescopic/Tilt Steering *

* Items not required by previous Ontario inspection criteria


5. Instruments and Auxiliary Equipment Visual inspection of the following components/systems:
  1. Fire Extinguisher *
  2. Hazard Warning Kit *
  3. Clutch & Brake Pedal *
  4. Horn (operational check)
  5. Speedometer (operational check)
  1. Indicator Lamps (operational checks)
  2. Instruments
  3. Chain/Headache Rack *
  4. Manufacturer’s Label *

* Items not required by previous Ontario inspection criteria


6. Lamps Visual inspection of the following components/systems:
  1. Lamps (operational checks)
  2. Reflex Reflectors
  3. Retro-reflective Markings *
  1. Instrument Lamp (operational checks)
  2. Headlamp Aiming (use aiming screen or equivalent)
  3. Aiming Screen

* Items not required by previous Ontario inspection criteria


7. Electrical System Visual inspection of the following components/systems:
  1. Wiring *
  2. Battery
  1. Switches (operational checks)
  2. Trailer Cord *

* Items not required by previous Ontario inspection criteria


8. Body Visual inspection of the following components/systems:
  1. Hood (operational check)
  2. Tilt Cab (operational check) *
  3. Air Suspended Cabs *
  4. Vehicle Body
  5. Load Securement Points *
  6. Front bumper
  7. Doors (operational check)
  8. Cab Mount Handle and Step *
  9. Windshield
  10. Side Windows (operational check)
  1. Rear Window *
  2. Frame Rails & Mounts
  3. Sun Visor (operational check)
  4. Rear View Mirrors (operational check)
  5. Seat(s) (operational check)
  6. Seat Belts/Occupant Restraints (operational check)
  7. Windshield Wipers/Washers (operational check)
  8. Heater & Windshield Defroster (operational check)
  9. Fenders or Mud-Flaps

* Items not required by previous Ontario inspection criteria


9. Tires and Wheels Visual inspection of the following components/systems:
  1. Tread Depth (requires measurements)
  2. Tread Section of Tire
  3. Sidewalls
  4. Tire Pressure (requires pressure check with gauge) *
  5. Hubs
  6. Wheel Bearings (requires wheel to be raised)
  7. Wheel/Rim (General)
  1. Multi-piece Wheel/Rim
  2. Spoke Wheel/Demountable Rim (requires wheel to be raised & rotated)
  3. Disc Wheel System
  4. Wheel Fasteners (requires each wheel nut to be checked with torque wrench) *

* Items not required by previous Ontario inspection criteria


10. Couplers and Hitches Visual inspection of the following components/systems:
  1. Trailer Hitch
  2. No Slack Hitch (operational check)
  3. Fifth Wheel Coupler (may require manual check)
  1. Oscillating Fifth Wheel (manual check)
  2. Permanently Attached Equipment *

* Items not required by previous Ontario inspection criteria


Keith 

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Documentation that the brakes were measured within the last 24months? really? um...........wouldnt they be worn out by then? I thinki I would be on the next set of brakes by then on a dump truck and on a road tractor the shoes only ever lasted me about 2 years so............

"Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin

"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH"

"You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need"

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Documentation that the brakes were measured within the last 24months? really? um...........wouldnt they be worn out by then? I thinki I would be on the next set of brakes by then on a dump truck and on a road tractor the shoes only ever lasted me about 2 years so............

drum measurements is what the records had to show, linings were at time of inspection..... it was an interim that lasted 10 years to get the operators lined up for the next set of regs in 2011..

as said, brake failures and cam-overs are dramatically down from past years as the biggest culprits around here were the dump trucks and pups operated by the suntanned guys with the wrap around stetsons, they ran drums until they were wafer thin.... the long distance truckers who ignored brake maintenance found out how tough it is to stop in the Rockies, we don't have anywhere around here where there is more than 5 miles of flat road..!!! LOL

on our city bus rear brakes we were getting 12-15 months per reline, 50k miles, and three to four sets of linings per drum change... so that rule worked for us... we also changed all the studs at drum change.... with s-cam bushings and full hardware kit everytime we costed lab/mat at $2k per year per rear axle. we estimated a full stop every 400ft.

disc brake pads are 21mm new, we remove by 5mm and off road if 3mm, three to four pad changes per year for 50k miles and 1-2mm disc wear per pad change.... studs and bearings are fixed replacement items regardless of condition..

jury is out on disc being a cheaper brake on a dollar per mile basis.... new caliper is $1600 and they fail on a regular basis, new only as replacement due liability issues on rebuilds... public city transport is not for the weak of wallet, that's why it's a government operation.

I'm sure owner operators would shudder at these numbers, but it is what it is with people as freight..!!

BC Mack

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We had some pretty aggresive wear on our school buses here too, when I first started helping with work on em I couldnt even drive yet and they were std 16x7 rears, a few years later and heavier diesel buses with full underfloor storage and pretty much everybody stepped up to larger fron and rear shoes, 8.6" rear shoes wear pretty well, figure on changing them once a year with a long high capacity route, year and a half to two years on a short route or low ridership. All of the buses here are 84 or 90 passenger, most are Blue Bird or Thomas with 13,200-14,600# steer and 23,000# drive axles 16 ply 11 R22.5 tires and 8.3 Cummins 250-300hp power, since the egr and scr changes the forward engine buses can only fit the 6.7 Cummins but they order them in at 280hp with 3000 series allison 5 speeds so they do pretty good. They had tried to push air disk at the Thomas dealer a while back but there was no state rule on them and the cost was prohibitive for an owner operator.

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"Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin

"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH"

"You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need"

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