bbigrig

Was anyone aware that the UPS Pinnacles of the last few years are MP7 405SE (SuperEconodyne) engines with 10speed fuller transmissions.

You can get the engine without the Mdrive. 

They go like heck when we road test them.

Mack Ste. Foy use to order some of the biggest Macks in North America.

Some of the big logging companies in Quebec ordered trucks from there.

That shop use to be full of RD822SX trucks constantly.  If any dealer in Canada knows heavy spec that would be one of them. Simon Poirer I believe was the owner.  

My personal opinion is stay away from the Mack Trans and diffs. Seen to many warranty issues lately.  One Titan is on its 3rd 18speed Mack Trans.   Not to say Fuller doesn't have its issues, but they are cheaper to repair. Same with Merritor axles.

And parts are everywhere. 

Betting money on the cancellation of the Maxitorque transmission line over here. 

Working on 1 of the only CH 's built in Canada as well.  Only 20 test trucks built before Winnsboro took all of its production.

10 hours ago, logtruckman said:

Another thing I wonder is why can't you get a bigger sleeper on a Granite  or why can't you get a 20 k front axle in a Pinnacle boggles my mind and then they wonder why there market share is so low. 

If I'm not mistaken.......

The Granite and Titan both use a reinforced cab shell.  It has more structure to it in case of impact damage.  The reinforced cab can only take the old style V opening Mack used on older sleepers. Pre 99 without the full cab back wall cutout.  The reinforced cab oak optional on Pinnacle day cabs I believe but standard on Granite and Titan.

The current factory sleepers would not be compatible needing the full back wall opening if I remember correctly.  Could be wrong though.

The R 700 here is legit.

It's a Canadian ex military with a 350 Cummins and a 15 fuller. There was an order of about 10 or 15 of them built in Oakville assembly NOT in Hayward or whatever.  These trucks were well kept with very low miles. This truck however has a cracked rail (dbl frame) above one of the new way air bags. He wants $10k cdn and won't take a penny less.  Goes on about he will part it out for more money then sell it complete for less.  My father did PDI's on these at Toronto Branch Mack back in the 80's 

1 hour ago, Bullheaded said:

DD Detroit doesn't have the grunt? Yours must be sick because mine is the closest thing you can get to a C15 Cat power wise.....and I also have an ISX600.

The DD16 600 2050 torque pulls like crazy. And so does the MP10 605.

 

I never did understand the issue of putting a bunk on the Titan. And how they talk about having to "engineer" it.

Local dealer around here have put all kinds of Pinnacle 60 in mid rise bunks on Titans. They just get the subframe and air ride for the Pinnacle and bolt it all in.

The bunk issue was the same argument over and over again.

The first Titan delivered in Canada had a stupid looking aftermarket bunk on it and was published in the Bulldog magazine. Engineering was the excuse that never went over well.  Friggin joke.

11 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

Actually the first Titans were on a Granite frame. Even the serial numbers start with G. Later on when frames were changed they went to TD designation. 

All the more reason to be a disappointment from day one.  

The granite frame was just a VHD frame.  

and the customer will never even know.....lol

18 minutes ago, Lmackattack said:

Yes the CL had engine options early on but I recall them very limited after just a few years? they also had sleeper options. 1/2 the CL's I saw had big bunks yet the titan had no provisions for a sleeper. when Mack years later did put out a Titan bunk option it was a very sad attempt to think OTR heavy haul drivers only wanted to live out of a flat top small 36"? bunk ... Back to the CL, Seams most were delivered with a E9 but not uncommon to find other power options. Then when the E9 went away I think you could only get a cummins for power. the point im trying to make is when the CL was released it had decent engine power and cab options. The Titan did not.

I saw far more CL's out on the road than I did Titans. However when the CL slowly went to limited engine options they failed to attract much attention. Fast forward to the Titan , it was released on the same platform as how the CL died off.  I just do not understand that concept

It was a poor concept from day 1.

I was able to speak directly to the Mack Canada marketing guru at a show at the time and he flat out said there was not enough market to justify the cost of engineering a sleeper on the Titan.  That was before the small bunk option was made available.  The customers cries for a large bunk totally fell on deaf ears.  I'm sure Volvo played a part in knowing all you had to do was by a VN with a D16 if you wanted a mid or large sized bunk for your truck.

The CL engine option demise was the market. Mack made the options expensive and people didn't buy them as much to save jobs at Hagerstown in the long run. I know customers we had up here that loved CAT options etc but they paid a premium for them. In the end Paccar would sell a truck with the same power train much cheaper then a CL.

Titan was a flub from day 1. The day I was shown the Titan front end clip at the then test center I knew it was going to be a fail from the one question I asked an engineer.......

Where are the tow hooks?

Why does this truck have NO tow hooks at the front end!!!!

Go back and look.  The first batch didn't have them.   There was more to this story but it showed this truck was going to be an engineering and marketing  flop.

On 1/11/2017 at 10:46 PM, logtruckman said:

Actually the CL was offered with alot of options the first few years e7,e9.caterpillar 3406,Detroit series 60 . Sleepers and axle and suspensions of all ratings and vendors . 

The CL was a nice highway truck but was expensive and heavy. Most highway customers wanted something cheaper and lighter. Highway being a large market that Mack still misses the mark on.

Probably my favorite model of Mack for versatility but those engine options were very expensive purposely to keep customers buying Mack engines and components. 

On 07/01/2017 at 5:07 PM, Bullheaded said:

An insider friend of mine just sent me these pics. Sorry about the small images, they were taken on his cell phone and he must have the settings low.

He said a heavy haul fleet in British Columbia, Canada is testing this black one. Could be the new replacement model. It has the new Volvo/Mack global cab. Said the cab is testing well and is liked by the test drivers.. No mention of engine though.

And just like how International used the code name "Project Silverback" when designing and testing the new Paystar replacement, which we now know as the HX, this one is using the name "Voltan"

There is also a very popular bulk hauler fleet in southern Ontario that currently has the other one for evaluation.

That's all he could tell me.

Sorry man......

Who ever your insider is likes to screw with you.

Both trucks are Volvo VNX trucks on the road.  Whom ever saw the walking floor on the road was long over due for some sleeper berth time.

The blue VNX  is the unit making the rounds in Ontario as a demo unit.(without the photo shopped grill)The picture without the Mack grill was in a major trucking magazine 3 months ago.

The black one is owned by Mammoet and is currently in use out west (as seen on you tube videos on Volvo page)  that customer used Macks for decades with E9's and has been using Western star to bridge the gap. Now using Volvo VNX.

Volvo wouldn't bother going through a rebadge  to keep Mack guys happy. They loved the fact every Mack you drive today is just a cab hood and sleeper that makes it Mack the rest being a volvo.

 I own some so I should know. 

The test trucks making the rounds in the states do not have a global cab but the updated mack Pinnacle cab.  

Nice try though...lol

I think Mack will be focusing on the product lines that sell.  Granite and the Pinnacle or its soon to be released highway update.

Sales are down right now and it may be a good time to shed the model lines that are not selling so hot.

 I'm surprised to hear that the D16 is being cut.  I'm seeing more Volvo VNX spec trucks up here lately and Volvo seems to be marketing that model up here pretty heavily in the last few months with videos on YouTube and literature. 

I was thinking Volvo killing the Titan they would just push customers to the VNX.  That changes things if the D16 is being phased out. I was of the understanding it was still offered with 2017 emissions engine lineup.  Guess not .

5 minutes ago, Bullheaded said:

This doesn't surprise me. I've been pricing Mack's for next truck, but prices are way out of line. So I showed dealers the 4900 Star I spec'd, same as my current one, but with the DD16 600.....fully loaded, leather interior, heated seats, full gauge package, dual breathers, light bars under cab and on breathers, air ride, etc.

What did they counter with? A rubber block Granite with the base interior, low back seats, no gauges.....for 20 grand more, LOL.

Ya.....I wanna get out of my loaded truck to get into a plain jane fleet spec. NOT.

Bet they quoted you on a stock or soon to be built unit to boot.... ouch.

5 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

My trucks will have 58,000 pounds on their back as a STRAIGHT truck. Gross 91,000 lbs. This on a approx 40 foot truck. The ONLY truck I have driven and seen comparable was a Western Star. It had a Detroit and weighed about a ton heavier than my Titans.   It sat just as high too. Paccar, granite, Freightliner and IH do not make a truck as rigorous. Sure I could buy a t800 and double the frame  but I promise it will not handle as well or last as long. 

Dont overlook that's a Volvo frame you are sitting on. almost everything you have on that truck comes on a truck without the dog.  

I keep forgetting that too. 

But I'm sure Western star will be the next order.

7 minutes ago, Jaws612 said:

Kawartha Capital Construction (Peterborough, Ont) has multiple tri-axle Titan dumps. They are the only company I can think of that runs more than one in Ontario - majority seem to be single purchase float tractors.

They bought 5 from Durham Mack....not happy already. May have more to do with the dealer. They also have Granites doing the same job for a lesser purchase price. 

That and the Granite tare weight is less. So every load they haul on a Titan it's less pay in the box.

They were a Paccar fleet.  Too many issues with Cummins power.

13 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

Drive a Titan......You'll change your opinion on the cab being to high. I also believe it's the same cab height as the Aussie trucks.  I had a hi/lo splitter valve on the Titan blow apart the other day. We crawled between the cab and frame to change it. Took a whole 15 minutes. 

I've driven several and worked on them.

I'm not a small guy but I regularly get my head and arms on top of a fuller Trans in a Mack Pinnacle.

 The whole cab height design for operation in North America is redundant. A hood that tall with an engine slung that low looks silly when you open the hood.  The rad height is even unnecessary for cooling.

The cab height on the Australian design on all conventional models  (including Titan) is to improve air flow/heat transfer off of the engine Trans post radiator.  That kind of air flow is not required for our climate but helps in theirs. 

The VN with D16 power and a low sloped hood and low cab prove it serves no purpose in cooling requirements here hauling 135k lbs gross through mountains.

Even the air cleaners under each side of the cab....I was at the test center in 2007 and was shown the Titan front end clip mock up with a freightliner like air cleaner on one side and that stupid decorative intake in use today.

It looked cool with external filter housings and made them more serviceable.

Why they went with under cab air filter mount???? Just to be different.....why they went with such a high hood and cab....just to be different...

Why Mack customers buy an over priced big ass tall truck they can look down on people driving.......just to be...????

The proof is in the market and the market has spoken. 

Customers here use Mp8 powered units daily to haul 135k lbs loads with the same issues a Titan would present.

Every customer here with a Titan has been disappointed in the product at our dealer level.  Maybe some of the Canadian guys on here can help me with this question I pose.....how many Mack customers here in Canada have more then 1 Titan in their fleet?  

I know of none in southern Ontario. I'm pretty sure there are a few in Quebec.

I'm happy you are happy with your Titan. I just wish they did better on the engineering of the truck from day one instead of copy and paste of the Australian day cab product at a premium price.

3 hours ago, logtruckman said:

Can someone answer as to why every other truck maker offers the full size 120 or longer BBC and offers 15 or 16 liter engines and sleepers but mack can't make one model like that . I mean really ? How hard it is it to make a extended hood chu offer mp10 or even  a cummins and front axle ratings up to 20k and big rears ??????? How the he'll hard is it to that ???

All you would have to do is extend the hood.  Set back or set forward.  The chassis being shared by the VN, is ready to take all power plants.   It is that simple. 

They would have to make a lot of changes to the granite for the 16L implant.

 Not enough room under the hood.

I also agree with the above comments. Titan was rushed into production and to this day has a lot of stupid design flaws such as the height of the cab and hood for no good reason. If a VN can cool a D16 with a sloped hood and cab close to the frame......

The VNX is out selling the Titan 10 fold up here.  Pricing, no sleeper options, it's heavier tare weight then 16L equipped VN's made it difficult to sell a Titan on a market that has other manufacturers with options coming out of their Ying yang for your next heavy truck.  I'm actually surprised it took this long with the way they held back thend Titan meanwhile the Australian version had options guys in North America wanted. 

I see more and more VN models that haul 100k lbs gross loads being powered by D16 lately.  It's actually fairly common. The engine is doing as well as the 13L engine just uses a bit more fuel. A VNX with 16L power is much cheaper then a Titan with more options.   The Mack die hard guys like us were buying Titans.  The guys that don't care about brand lineage but care more about bottom line and options for their drivers went to Volvo or somewhere else. 

There are just more of them then us.

The market has spoken to the options that were given on the Mack product line.

The bottom ends of the MP8 series have been doing quite well.  Lots of untouched 7-800,000 mile highway units with the bottom ends untouched still running. Cups and injectors done already of coarse.  Lol.  Rebuilding or installing a drop in of this series of engine is just shy of double of it it would cost to do an etech in frame or drop in.  A 2010 with a spun bearing came in.  A drop in engine, plus labor to swap was just shy of $40k Canadian. Not cheap.

Only if you have the keystone interior (available on 99 and up on some builds) the buttons for sleeper lights are above the driver in the header. usually the last button on the right. 

Pre 99 some Mack bunks had a light switch in the front wall of the bunk behind the driver seat (almost always hidden by the curtain) never saw a cab dash mounted bunk light on the older CH interiors.

The only difference is the front bumper to hood grill (cannot have any bumper sticker out past the front of hood.  must be a flat line top to ground) and axle spacing for bridge law.  the whole design has to do with bridge law out west.  they count the bumper to back of a cab as a dimension that must be a certain length. also the normal mount of the bumper on any Mack is usually out past the grill.  for some reason that bumper sticking out is taken into the bridge law formula.  don't ask me why I don't understand it my self. 

On 04/12/2016 at 4:26 AM, Vladislav said:

This too makes sence. Not nice to hear though.

At least now I know the matter of the fact.

There is another interesting point in that story. Although Watts Mack couldn't track down my VIN's, one of the members on here once helped me locating some parts. He made it through another dealer and informed me they could see the truck in the system. Unfortunately I couldn't contact that dealer to get the production info.

So my question is - if anybody on here has access to Mack programm, I would be too likely to get the factory specifications on my trucks.

The VIN's are 2M2N187y8KC026171 and 2M2N187Y8KC026172.

VLAD. ....

What model of trucks do your vin numbers go to.

Mack uses the last 6 digits of the VIN on multiple models. 

Are they R688'S.????

On 03/12/2016 at 8:36 PM, 85snowdog said:

Well this makes some sense to me now. 

Here are some pics to reinforce what you mention about incomplete.

This paperwork came with my 1988 "R"  . 

This document came with every truck built in Canada.  the truck off the line was not considered built complete until 5th wheel in the case of a tractor or for a straight truck the box installer.

The dealer or branch in most cases was the place of certification in Canadian terms. 85snow dog in your case you may notice a certification plate or decal in the cab that has the axle weights, vin etc printed on it. that decal was probably installed by the dump body manufacturer which was in your case the "final manufaturer"

2m2 is on EVERY Mack built in Canada.it has nothing to do with being a knock down kit. All Canadian Macks have that in the VIN.  

2 designation goes on any car or truck built in Canada.

At the Toronto Branch if it was a tractor a cert. decal would be installed with weights ratings etc. on the door jam decal basically showing the axles ratings etc were not changed from manufaturer. thus making the branch the final builder and certification center for the truck.

Mack Canada Oakville was not a final installer. no truck off the line was considered PDI'd or road ready.  thus the incomplete designation. Toronto Mack had a separate back shop that my Father worked in just to handle the "Finals" certifications and installs that made them a complete truck.

That was only until the 90's until factory fifth wheels etc started becoming finaled or delivered complete through the factory. if you ordered a Granite Mack today with no body it can be considered complete in certain ways. mount a box or mixer etc it has to be tagged as complete by the final manufacturer.   the paperwork you have displayed above is for the body builder to fill in their certification plate that by law they must affix.  my Superliner which was built in Canada and sold to a customer in Canada also has 2M2 as its starting VIN so it has nothing to do with being knock down or incomplete.