RobM626

6 minutes ago, Mackpro said:

Air drier. The the exhaust port to the left in picture always stays open/ not plugged 

So those tee’d lines are supposed to share a port?

11 minutes ago, Freightrain said:

one supply, one to unloader.  The extra tee line goes to?

It looks like they put the compressor and another line together on one port. I think this is part of my new problems

i cant tell which line is for reservoir and which line is for dryer

Hey guys . Does this look right to you? Aren’t the lines supposed to be in 3 different ports?

If you have an electronic fault I don’t think it will work so clear the faults if you have the lamp lit 

Turn cruise control on/off 3 times quickly . Set the rpm you want then press the clutch pedal to set new rpm

47 minutes ago, rayrancho said:

I have a fleet of concrete trucks. A driver complained of harsh vibrations in truck and further diagnosis showed that said truck idles at 500 rpm, while the others are at 625-650 rpm smoothly. When idled up to 625-650 truck is smooth. Where to look? Driver states truck does not run poorly or have any other symptoms when driving other than slightly sluggish on take off... if low fuel pressure was the cause, wouldnt the computer pick up the issue and make necessary adjustments to put idle at desired range? idle does not fluctuate with a/c on or off...I haven't found any information on fuel pressure specifications from fuel pump. I appreciate any help/ leads. I do not have a scan tool for this truck.

 

Auto or manual?

I was at the world of concrete show out in Vegas this past January. Mack was there and had some beautiful trucks as part of the show. On of the representatives was there telling me about the common rail MP  saying how good it is bla bla bla. All I can think of in my head is “this engine wasn’t really designed for it”. It really is a shame a company that has had such a long/strong history of building tough products can be held down like this. 

My question is how do you guys think the common rail mp8 stands against say the Cummins x15. I understand one is a 13 liter and one is a 15 liter so obviously there’s going to be a power difference. But as far as design and reliability go?

2 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

What a lot of people don't understand is that timing is critical for diesel and timing to each cylinder is even more critical

Injector lines cant be shortened at all and if a diesel miss fires on one cylinder even a tiny bit it will mean that the motor is out of balance

How much is needed to out of balance will depend on the injector line length

As little as a few months ago I a injector line broke on the way into Dubbo (town in western NSW) the young pimple faced mechanic at the Mack dealer say's "just crimp it off" I tried to explain you cant , he wouldnt listen so in the end I trimed a little out and joing the line with some air line fittings to get me going

Im sure we have all heard stories about motors running on 5 instead of 6 or 7instead of 8 for years with no drama , when pressed about these yarns they turn out to be bull, a motor will vibrate it self apart

I am not a trained mechanic at all but I make it my business to know whats going on and to know how long things should take as it all costs me money and it doesnt grow on trees were Im from

Something is wrong that no one else has looked at yet, all anyone has done is fix the symptom 

Like going to the doctor with your finger half hanging off and you say "I'm leaking blood" the doctor says just put some pressure on it , all good the blood stops but you question as to why when you take the pressure off it starts leaking again and no one bothers to put a stitch or two in to fix the problem 

You need to go back to basics and confirm everything is right at the very start of when this problem began, trouble is no mechanic is gunna want to touch this mess now after every other person has had their fonger in the pie

I dont know about the US but out here there are very few mechanics left just people that change things over because they are told by the computer or forman 

Or buy your self some tools and a couple of workshop manuals and fix it your self, even if it takes months it wont matter because its been off the road for months now and cant do no worse than whats already been done 

 

Paul

I bought the etech service manual but there’s not much in there on trouble shooting. Unless there are different service manuals I don’t know. There’s information on how it runs and assembly/dissasembly but not much on how to diagnose. That’s y I’ve been driving all you fine gentlemen crazy for Months lol.

im running the truck everyday I really don’t have much of a choice. It costs us 800-1000$ a day to rent a dump truck from another company and that’s a non union truck. I feel like I’ve been running the truck like this so long that I did irreversible damage. Gonna see what happens when I drop the tranny and oil pan.

thanks for the input

6 hours ago, theakerstwo said:

The city I live near is full of one horse shops that could not make it at a dealer and now have a shop of their own.I watch guys take their trucks there and end up running into same as this problem has.So many guys I work with ask me ever so often what can we do and I always tell them ever one that owns a truck and cant work on it their self is having same problem with repairs.If you can do your own repairs then don't keep the truck.

It’s just not right . I hear what your saying. I’m trying to learn more and more and do as much as I can but life is a whole learning experience. I just have different morals and values than a lot of other people. I admit when I’m wrong and try to rectify it and I care about my professional reputation. I literally wouldn’t be able to sleep at night or look myself in the mirror knowing I charged someone thousands of dollars and did a half assed job

3 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

I have been reading this thread on and off for some time 

Are you sure the timing is right between injector pump cam and crank 
Has anyone dialed it in just to see ??


One thing for sure it isnt anything that has been tried so far as most things have been done a few times now and still no difference except the bank balance is a lot lighter 

Always go back to basics, something has had to have changed to start this and yet no one is really looking just changing stuff hoping to fix the problem 

There is a very good reason I fix all my own things and rarely pay anyone, I might stuff up but I will admit it and not bull shit my self and I also know what has been left and missed 

I rebuild truck and tractor transmissions motors and and final drives, I rebuild final drives and the like and rarely change every bearing, shaft or gears and my old buckets will work on full power all day and not let me down 

I make plenty of mistakes but I learn from them 

I would have bought my own tools long ago and maybe still not have fixed it but would have a far better understanding of whats what 

just saying

Paul   

It’s an eup motor. But the timing of the cam gear was always a thought in my head. When I mentioned that to the guy that did the work (who closed his shop this year by the way) he said if the timing was off it either wouldn’t run or would be smoking like crazy. The fact of the matter is I have no idea what they did or didn’t do. What I do know is they didn’t change the EUP’s when they did the cam and rollers. The 2 from the bad lobes were shot. So the motor was running with barely firing/ leaking injectors until I went to a different shop and I changed all 6. And that guy didn’t even change nozzles and injector lines. I’m so sick of people opening businesses and calling themselves mechanics . I have a business and if someone asks me to do something if I don’t know the answer or what I’m doing I straight up say so or get someone that does.

43 minutes ago, 1965 said:

has this vibration been there since you’ve owned the truck? I’m not doubting you. Has the engine been into before? 

No it’s gotten progressively worst after different things that were done to the truck. An inframe was done like 4 years ago . After that the motor ran hotter than usual but ran good. A couple years ago I got hit in my yard with a loader and after I picked truck up from  body shop I noticed my clutch was really soft and I had this spinning noise/vibration. I replaced clutch and then I started getting a slapping/clunking noise Everytime I shifted or pressed realeased accelerator. Shortly after that my cam shaft had two lobes that were shot . Replaced cam and rollers and then the motor never ran right since . Been downhill from there. Since then replaced half the components of the truck with the same problems keep coming back and always getting worst. I used to think it was one thing that the problem was. Now it’s looking like multiple  serious things.

i just changed flywheel. I think that was the cause of the premature clutch failures. Now I’m thinking my rears are what’s causing tranny damage. I think the clunking slapping I’m feeling in the tranny is the rears and it’s sending like shock load to the transmission and the clutch. The motor is a whole another mess now. 

5 minutes ago, AZB755V8 said:

Most diesel turbos do not have oil seals. Most gasoline engines do have turbo oils seals. This is due to the the difference in operation principle. Diesels have no throttle butterfly to reduce air flow into the engine and basically run maximum airflow at all times. There is very little vacuum or negative pressure in the intake or turbo at idle. This negative pressure or vacuum will draw oil out of a non sealed turbo and be used as fuel in a diesel. Oil will enter the intake if the oil retune is blocked or the shaft or bearings are worn beyond limits. This is known as a run away, for two reasons, the engine will not stop until the air flow is cut off and run at catastrophic RPM's. Secondly you better run away as flying parts are eminent. 

There can be a small amount of pressurized turbo air that can enter the turbo housing and return to the crack case thought the oil return. This would only happen when the turbo was creating boost. The higher the boost the more air to the crack case.

In a gas engine there is 13-14psi of negative pressure at idle and that would suck oil from a non sealed turbo shaft. Different from a diesel that if oil is sucked into the intake it would foul spark plugs and airflow can be reduced by the throttle butterfly and the engine will stop.

One other issue, there can be a small amount of pressurized air entering the crank case though worn valve guides, both intake and exhaust, but this again would be when the turbo was adding boost to the engine and not at idle. 

Thank you for the detailed response. Much better understood

1 hour ago, 1965 said:

Your clutch wear is throwing I big loop in the deal for me. I didn’t go back & read all of it again but a fan clutch will cause a lot of vibration too. Don’t really see that causeing clutch wear like you have though.

Yea  they ran motor without tranny in and there’s a slight vibration but it’s not as pronounced because it doesn’t have the tranny to travel through 

i replaced fan clutch couple months ago no change.

im bringing the truck back to the last guy that worked on it and he told me he’s gonna drop tranny again and get it dynoed from rebuilder and checked out.. he said he’s gonna drop the oil pan too and see what’s going on up there. Although he won’t be able to fix it BC he doesn’t do motor work. The saga continues

4 hours ago, AZB755V8 said:

Blow by is caused by an increase in crankcase pressure that is over atmospheric pressure. The only way to increase the crankcase pressure is by adding more (air) and having it escape out the breather or vent tube due to the pressure differential. The seal between the top of the piston (compression side) and the crankcase are the rings and cylinder walls. Scorched or scored walls or worn rings compromises the seal and the result is blow by. Even in some rebuilds the engine will have blow by and after break in decrease as parts seat or wear in. 

The white or light gray smoke at start up is normally from valve guide seals. Oil leaked down the valve steam during engine shut down and dripped down onto the piston and is burt off in the first minute or so after start up. It is incomplete combustion of the oil and fuel in the cylinders this is more noticeable at first start in cold weather. Until the engine builds a little heat the white smoke will remain, this is from fuel not oil from valve stem seals after the first minute of operation.

Thank you for the info. Can the turbo seal cause blow by?

12 hours ago, AZB755V8 said:

Just from what you are saying before and now, it is difficult to help you. Is it still smoking as much after the exhaust leak fix? If someone has been messing with the pump it is anyone's guess on fueling and how hot it was run and for how long. Blow by is due to bad piston rings and, or pistons mainly so the engine may be loose to begin with and needs a lot of work. Blow by is not due to a bad valve. I asked the idle RPM and you say it has a smooth idle. The differences between a cylinder out is 50RPM at idle. It will be a smooth idle even running on 7 of 8 cylinders.

Who knows what was done to the truck when a dead man can't talk?  There are just not that many guys around any more that know much about these E9's as they stopped making them 20 years ago. My local Mack dealer doesn't even have a Tech to work on an E9, don't think there is one in the entire state. I am the only guy to get parts for one in the last 10 years from Mack in Phoenix.

 

Sorry to jack the thread, but what are some other places to look for causes of blow by besides piston rings?

i have no smoke from stack except for a little white/ light grey at the first start of the morning (little more on a cold day) and very very very little black if I push accelerator before the turbo really starts to push then it clears completely. I have no noticeable oil consumption and my oil samples always come back with no signs of problems

The setup I had was cable engage/disengage and cable up/down. I absolutely hated it. Now it’s air everything. And the set up is great. I know what you’re saying about the air not being as precise because the regular truck I drive is like that. I feel like the older the valves get they they get loose and leaky and aren’t as precise.

No problem. I can’t gaurantee if it will get rid of your problem but like I said earlier. There’s a night and day difference between the two as far as ease of operation goes. This set up didn’t once freeze up this past winter and it engages the first time every time.

i think the total cost for the pto and air controls costed around 8-900. My in-house mechanic installed it so we didn’t pay labor. I changed out a pto that already had air controls and I paid over 1000 from the mechanic

11 minutes ago, Deere Mack said:

I feel like it would make a difference but not sure. I wonder if the air lines could act like fiber optic cables and carry the sound or if it's mainly the vibration from the metal cable carrying the noise.

Anyone out there have the same set up with air controls?

The air hoses that replaced the cables are hollow plastic 1/4” hoses. The cables obviously have a metal cable with a plastic sheath over them. There’s not really a medium for sound/vibration to travel with the air hoses

I don’t know if it would completely eliminate the noise but we changed out the pto on a truck that had a cable system to an air shift pto and the air shift is 100 tines better. Smoother, faster, easier, cable doesn’t freeze up in winter.

7 hours ago, d9gdon said:

That is a bad break. I was hoping that you found the problem and it was something simple.

Wondering out loud that they didn't put the wrong damper on the truck? I guess if that was the case it would have shown up immediately after.

Do the mechanics not road test it after it's been through the shop?

I personally bought the damper from mack. There was supposedly an update for etech engines . I believe the new one was bigger and has more bolt holes . They said I didnt have to change the hub.

they road tested it this time and told me they think it’s in the motor but they don’t do motor work.

i don’t understand how metals never show up in the oil samples. Blackstone always tells me my numbers are excellent with minimal wear. I’m starting to think these oil analysis’ are full of shit man

and shame on all these mechanics to let me keep dumping all this money into a truck that’s not gonna be worth .02 cents once the motor blows up. After this recent bill the repairs totaled $40,000. I could’ve bought another truck 

1 minute ago, fjh said:

well it sounds like ya need to look into the blo by situation that don,t sound good is it puffing at the fill tube? if so you lkly got a bad hole!

It’s got light steam in the fill tube/ dip stick

7 minutes ago, fjh said:

Bud its been along go And I don't remember the full parts change sheet did you replace the damper!Is it possible we have an over fueling situation on 1 cylinder!

It has a new damper

Since I got the truck back it’s giving me a whole new bunch of symptoms. The whole thing feels like it’s falling apart. The motor has more blow by than usual. It’s shaking more than ever. The tranny sounds like it’s about to blow. My tears feel like they’re screwed. The truck is a rolling disaster right now and I do t know where to start. I think I should light a match and call it a day

i don’t understand how all these things just bombarded the truck in the past 2 weeks. I didn’t have a situation happen where it was like “oh no I blew a rear” or “oh no my tranny blew” it just keeps gradually getting worst to the point the trick is barely driveable

6 hours ago, d9gdon said:

Well, it's been three weeks now. What'd they find?

The flywheel was destroyed . Replaced it. The clutch was shot AGAIN.it was only wearing on the inside of the paddles. the driveshaft was put of balance so they balanced it and a wheel bearing was bad

now the truck feels worst than before the motor is sending a pulsation that’s traveling through the tranny and rattling the hell out of the gears . The slapping when pressing and releasing accelerator is worst than ever. And my transmission is making horrible growling noises. 

Im trying to find a day that bring it back so he can drop tranny  again, drop oil pan. And check out rears. I’m was so miserable about this situation I did t even post the update . Sorry

Will do... I personally am so curious to know what is actually the problem. For me it’s like trying to find out who really killed Kennedy lol. A good mechanic is really like a detective