RobM626

11 hours ago, Bullheaded said:

I talked to an engineer from Detroit at a big trucking industry trade show a couple years back. We talked about my issues with regens. His words of advice:

"Even though these new motors have lots of low end torque and we advertise running low RPM to save fuel........in you application forget about fuel economy and drive it like you stole it like an old two stroke."

Kinda makes sense. No heat= no regen. Then you have all the other bullshit that goes along with your emissions system. Lights ,codes, sensors, having to do forced regens because truck won’t do it on its own.

Thanks  for all your help man. Appreciate it

11 hours ago, Bullheaded said:

That's the problem Rob. You don't want to get stuck with them when the axle laws make them unproductive. Then the resale value really goes to nothing on them. Another reason we have to keep new. Like with here, a non-SPIF lift axle will lower your allowable gross to the same as a tandem. And nobody will hire that.

Best advice I can tell you is get all the extended warranty you can get, and get on a 5 year trade cycle. That is when they really seem to start costing money, but you can still have 2 years of drivetrain warranty on them at that point which helps in resale.

And unlike the trucks of old, now you need to only get as much power as you need. No more big power to save fuel. You need them working hard and making heat in the engine and exhaust. I have winter fronts on as soon as the temp gets close to freezing. I've had them on for a month already.

Then there's always the option of deleting. But they are really looking for signs of it here. Even the dealers and they won't give you an annual safety if you are deleted. But many are still getting away with it. So depends on if you like gambling or not.

Only other thing I can tell you is the SCR/DPF catalysts were $1600 to replace in my Detroit versus $6800 for the ISX (Canadian prices here.) But I know a few guys that have the new X15 Cummins and they tell me Cummins has a very simplified emission system now with fewer sensors than anyone else? (what I was told but I have not done any hard research.)

I really think 5 years is the number these days... a few guys around here always buy new trucks and get rid of them in 4-5 years. Free warranty is up and before you start putting major money into it. 

Ive been researching deleting for a few years now and can’t get myself over the edge to do it. Who knows maybe one day.

i heard a lot of good things about the Detroit’s and also the x series cummins. They’ve been doing a lot of r&d these past 10 years and I think it shows in the product. 

45 minutes ago, Bullheaded said:

The new trucks do excel in one area though. They have a wonderfully comfortable cab interior with all the comforts and luxury. So you will be really comfortable sitting waiting for the tow truck to come get you.

😂... that was great... I know I’m well aware of the common issues with the new trucks. How much money should you keep throwing at an old truck though before it’s “enough”? Especially the 2000. Have between 40-50 grand invested in it and we still can’t get it running right. The 06 still has good life left in it but the longer I keep it the more money it’s gonna cost for maintenance and depreciation. And New York City is passing the laws about the steerable lift axels and emissions So I don’t wanna get caught with my pants around my ankles and 2 trucks I’m not gonna be able to use and probably take an even bigger hit on price when I sell. The accountant is also telling us to take advantage of the write off. 

Thanks for the input 

1 hour ago, kscarbel2 said:

Sounds like you have a good understanding of the situation.

The all-encompassing goal is for you to be able to make money. The human nature aspect is choosing a brand you can like, and a model that has an aesthetic appearance that pleases you. You want to feel good about your purchase, when you look at the truck, and at the end of the month when you pay your bills.

In your application, the Allison is a wise investment.

What do you think is a good rear ratio to run with the Allison. We made a big mistake with a volumetric mixer we have. We left the spec for the rears up to the dealer when we ordered in 2012. They put 3.76 I believe. That truck blew the rears 3 times. And Mack would not help us at all. I thought they were too high for the application. Then finally the 3rd time it happened I brought it to a different shop and they put 4. Something in and never had a problem since. The dealership put a real bad taste in our mouths after that. And that was like the 6th truck we bought from them

20 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

Exactly, the "cost" of your engine choice is a factor. Pay up for what you need, but don't shoot past that point and pay extra for an excessively large engine you don't need, which is heavier (a detractor to possible payload) and thirstier (more money unnecessarily leaving your pocket).

I don't like the Volvo D13 (rebadged as Mack brand MP8). Most of all, I don't like the cheap Delphi fuel injection system, including the fact that it's a jury rig.....a common rail on their old unit pump injection architecture engine block.

The Bosch and Cummins-Scania XPI high pressure common rail fuel injection systems are the best in the business. Volvo's Delphi system is soooo bad.....they went with the low bidder.

The DD13 is a great engine, but that would mean buying a Western Star. That's more engine than you need, and I think the Kenworth, all factors considered, is a wiser investment with greater resale value (The Australian market Western Star product is top notch, but the US market sells a cheapened product).

If you like the aesthetics of the Peterbilt, you can get the same ISX12/Allision combination in their vocational models. And after touring their Denton, Texas plant, you'd be a Peterbilt loyalist.

My sentiments exactly about the new mp8’s. It’s really a shame what Volvo did to Mack. 

I talked to a guy I know that sells western stars and he told me same thing. I like them but there’s not many dealers by me so parts would be an inconvenience.

the Peterbilts are probably my absolute favorite trucks. Geographically the dealer is about 45 mins away compared to 10mins for Mack/Kenworth.

i priced out the Kenworth, Peterbilt and Mack . They’re all within $10,000 of each other.those Allison’s are a pricey option. I think it’s like 20 grand for the Allison. I think it’s definately worth it though. For resale value, maintenance and longevity. It’s so hard to find a driver for a manual

12 hours ago, Mack Technician said:

It would be nice to have a fleet owner, with multiple OEM’s, dump some cost-per-hour/mile comparisons. 

That would be nice!

2 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

I ideal balance of power, torque, fuel economy and weight. Twelve liters is all 95 percent of the market needs, and particularly in a dump (tipper) application.

Trucks are not cars......they were never intended to accelerate as quick as one. But matched with the Allison, the X12 will deliver impressive acceleration (for a truck) and fuel economy, with solid reliability and dependability.

 

Yea I hear ya with the speed. I like to have the torque when I’m grossing 80-85000lbs though. Most of the time the 15 liter is not needed. And it’s probably the most expensive option on the truck. 

So how do you think the mp8 compares to the x12? What would you go with?

12 hours ago, r686st said:

I am following this seriously since I am in the Market too. I would be leaving a '94 DM and getting a granite with air ride. 50/50 road and offroad driving.

Maybe I’m overthinking it but it’s a pretty tough decision to make. My local dealer is a Mack and Kenworth dealer. Mack parts are stocked a little better than the Kenworth stuff since it’s more of a component truck and so many more parts need to be stocked. 

But overall the big picture is reliability. I know every manufacturer has their problems but who stands behinds their products better? I’m going to be getting rid of 2 trucks and replacing it with one. So if something were to happen I wouldn’t have an extra truck as a back up like I do now.

10 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

The Kenworth with an ISX12 and Allison transmission is popular for very good reasons.

I hear the new x12 is supposed to be a good engine too. 

12 hours ago, masterwelder said:

How’s you’re dad like the section of I88 between Oneonta and Cobleskill? To say it’s rough would be  kind!

I was just up there last weekend actually... in my car tho. Completely different ha

12 hours ago, masterwelder said:

Is it going to be put up for sale?

Yes sir

8 hours ago, mackcat12 said:

Ok guys after almost a year of Mack working on my truck they have finally decided to put a new engine in my truck! The data recorder showed absolutely nothing engineering said there was nothing wrong with the truck they have changed so many parts I’ve lost count , truck started using oil and has a terrible vibration, they brought another engineer in last week and he had them drop the oil pan and inspect the pistons and they found they were scored so they called me today and said they were going to replace the engine only took 11-1/2 months but they have to order everything so it will probably be another month before everything is done.I will keep you posted 

Well at least it’s a step in the right direction and not anymore maybe it’s this or maybe it’s that guessing while you’re stuck with a payment and not making money. Good luck to ya. This post is what’s making me unsure of buying a new Mack. And if I recall correctly you said your dealer was actually pretty good to deal with. Mine is horrible. Lack of quality dealer support can make you wanna drive the truck offf a cliff on a test drive with them in it!

2 hours ago, fjh said:

This is a shame!

I know... gonna miss this truck but I ran out of patience and confidence in trying to get it working right.

On 11/18/2018 at 8:32 PM, masterwelder said:

Almost a month, any update?

Clutch is shot. I think springs broke in the pressure plate. I’m finally waving the white flag with this truck. I spent 2 + years trying to get her back to her glory and running like a champ but I do t have anymore money to throw at an almost 20 year old truck. I had a long contemplation on what to do and I think it’s best I move on from it and get a new truck. 

I would really like to thank all of you that helped with this thread and truck!

Hey guys. I think we’re going to sell 2 of our older units. An 05’ granite and the 2000 rd. Was seriously debating if getting into a new granite would be the best choice or should I go with a kenworth with a cummins. 

Is anyone on here running either the new common rail mp8 or the x15?

the truck is going to be a dump truck. Tri-axel. 90% city driving. Think of going with the Allison. What brand and ratio rears should I go with? 

Any other thoughts ?

26 minutes ago, Dirtymilkman said:

The codes will never tell you specifically what is wrong. They just tell you if something is out of it's normal operating limits. You then have to diagnose it from there. I had a bad scr for quite awhile and the fault codes kept leading us back to the egr. Finally they replaced the scr and all gas been good for months. 

I went they 3 sets of nox sensors. Had the dpf baked like 3 times. Def dosers. It makes me think a fuel problem causing it to get so dirty faster than usual. I gotta start taking stuff apart. Before doing that I was just trying to figure out where to look first

11 minutes ago, Dirtymilkman said:

My bad actuator never gave any bad codes. 

If the vanes are dirty or clogged will t give codes? Same goes for egr.will it always give a code if it’s dirty?

7 hours ago, steeler said:

Do you still have active dpf codes? Could be derated causing your low power?

No. dpf codes are gone after I did forced regen. 

10 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

Sounds like turbo actuator

That was a thought as well.

42 minutes ago, steeler said:

Not sure of the exact spec, but should be higher. What hp mp8 is it? Can you hear any squealing noises or anything abnormal?

Ita either 445 or 425 I can’t recall 100%, I gotta check valve cover... the fan clutch has been stuck on for a while and I can’t get it to go off. I changed the fan clutch assembly and nothing changed. I scanned it with computer and had some dpf codes. Had to do a forced regen. Also had a code for engine brake module. So I changed that out but still don’t have much engine braking power. I think that’s related to the low boost... this truck just feels like it has no balls anymore. It used to be a nice pulling truck and now I can barely go 30-35 mph. I’m thinking injectors. I gotta check for a boost leak though as well

Hey guys. How much boost is the mp8 supposed to push? 2012 mp8 with Allison auto. My my 08 mp7 is getting up to 39-40 psi... I’m lucky if i can get 28-29 with the mp8 fully loaded up hill. I can’t even hold it at 28. It will start to drop to 25-26 with WOT... 

1 hour ago, wilbur said:

Got report back from BlackStone. They said fuel was 1 percent and all was ok. You read it and see what ya think. Thanks.

80-181015 (3).pdf

Idk that flash point is a lower than I usually get.. mine are usually around 435... but it could be from excessive idling 

4 hours ago, fjh said:

Yup the clutch cable thing is a hard thing to wrap your head around  how ever I have seen quite a few issues pertaining to a worn clutch cables jerky operation ect! never had one make a clutch slip that bad how ever it is possible as you have proven !

Yea as I can tell I have the “ive never seen that before” truck... with almost all the equipment we have that’s the case... me and my partner joke about it all the time

3 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

That's great news that it is fixed by the sounds of it 

 

Its a shame it has taken so long and so much money was thrown at it before it was sorted, but none of this matters now as the truck is going again

 

Paul 

It feels a lot better than it did with a broken clutch cable but I think I’m gonna have to do a clutch job... AGAIN...I’m bringing the truck in for a 3 axel alignment sometime in next couple weeks. I’m gonna talk to owner at shop and see if he’ll warranty the clutch for me. Worth a shot. We’ll see... he knows what I went thru with this truck. 

55 minutes ago, Swishy said:

Butt

 

iz it fixed

can we close the book on this problem

n can the jury B now dissmissed

LOL

cya

It’s not “fixed” but i gotta deal with it for now...I don’t know where else to look. Jury can take a sabbatical lol