RoadwayR

At this point I would love to hear it run (again) too!

I am screwing around with this at the moment:

I wonder if International will offer the Octane in the MV series: https://www.icbus.com/internal-combustion-engine

GMC made the 702 V-12 from '60 to '65, it was replaced by the 637 V-8 in '66. I have seen a few 637's, mostly in fire apparatus. There was also a very rare Toro-Flow diesel 637 V-8 which I have only seen in boats.

Right. I looked it up, the Mack's with EN-414 gasoline engines (Chrysler 413 industrial) were the 410 series. There was an R, DM, and MB 410.

Yeah, maybe they could have bird-dogged all those Sterling dealers when that circus left town. Possibly sell some trucks through CaseNH dealers too. Plenty of possibilities.

When Fred Diaz was running Ram back in the FCA days, he wanted to develop Ram into a full line producer of commercial trucks by making Iveco trucks available in North America. I thought it was a great plan, but Exor spun Iveco and Case NewHolland off and Diaz left for Nissan. All Ram ever got was the Fiat Dublo and Ducato, the excellent Daily stayed with Iveco. I don't think anyone at the train wreck known as Stellantis knows what a commercial vehicle is. Anyway, it's fun to imagine what a big Iveco would have looked like with a Ram hood ornament on it! I hear you on the lament that the Italians have just given away their only manufacturer of heavy trucks. Tata has done wonders with Land Rover and Iveco fits well into their existing commercial vehicle operations. Exor, the holding company that represents the legacy of the Angelli (Fiat) family, is in the process of 'de-industrializing', substantially reducing their holdings in manufacturing. Their robotic manufacturing operation Comau and parts giant Magneti Marelli have already been sold, and holdings in Ferrari reduced. With Iveco sold off that only leaves CNH and FPT. Anyone have Manhindra's phone number?

GMC dealers offered a kit to retrofit a GMC V-6 into a White 3000.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/tata-motors-buy-italys-iveco-after-defence-unit-disposal-2025-07-30/

4000's were very similar to 9000's except they had a longer hood.

I had heard for a few years White offered the GMC 478 V-6 in some 4000 series trucks. Can't say I have ever seen one, but I did find this the other day:

Thank you for that. Technically even if the engine meets CARB regulations but the manufacturer does not certify the engine with CARB then it isn't compliant and can't be sold in California. I would like to see the emissions label on a new Powerstroke powered F-650, I suspect it says Federal EPA only. I have to say I think that's a really bad decision on Ford's part. Ford is claiming the move will improve the 'overall environmental performance of our fleet' which seems a rather dubious reason. Of course it's in compliance with heavy duty NOx standards, diesels create a lot more NOx than gas engines so if you don't sell any diesels it will be easier to comply with NOx standards. Not sure what Ford is trying to prove here. They broke ranks with the EMA and seem to be falling over backwards to please CARB at the expense of truck sales and their dealers. And this is in light of the fact that as 67RModel stated the Ford trucks CAN comply with CARB regulations. Crazy! Regardless of what side of the political fence you are on you have to admit CARB, or at least their ability to create their own vehicle emission standards, could very well come to an end soon.

For sure the 650/750 is the perfect truck for certain operators, like municipalities and utilities that can get by with a basic spec. medium duty. Anyone a requirement for severe service, high mileage (diesel), special equipment options or a complicated upfit would be best served by International, Freightliner, or Mack. I am in So. Cal., and the 650/750 were strong sellers up until the last few years, but since the 6.7L Powerstroke is no longer CARB compliant you hardly see new ones. Galpin Ford, the nation's second largest Ford dealer, has 2 650's (both leftover 2024's) currently in stock, my local Ford Pro dealer doesn't have any 650's or 750's. With 650/750 sales being what they are today and knowing Ford, I am a little surprised these trucks are still around. It's not like they share a platform with any other Ford. Ford Pro seems to be all about the Transit, I wish Ford would once again get serious about 'real' commercial trucks.

Ford 'heavy truck' (what they consider the F-650 and 750 to be) sales are down yet again for the month of July. That's 9% for the month and over 15% for the year, and equates to less than a 1000 units/month. Maybe a reason Ford doesn't want to put any money in the line?

Story I was told was there was an underhood heat problem.

Very impressive! Looks like the clowns in Dearborn were kept far away from it. I assume it's fully emissions compliant for all of Europe.

Yes, but not with air brakes.

That's true, but Ford doesn't really offer a powertrain for that high a GVW. North of 30k# GVW you should have a Cummins L9/Allison 3000, and the whole point of the Ford 650/750 is to offer a low cost class 6/7 with a proprietary drivetrain. While the 6.7L Powerstroke certainly has the beans for that GVW, I would be concerned about long-term durability. The Ford Torq-Shift 10 speed is a very good pickup truck to class 5 transmission, but beyond that I don't know. An Allison 3000 I do know! The vast majority of these Fords sold are 'under CDL' spec. jobs anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

Yes, I see a lot of the gas jobs in municipal fleets. Even if International, Freightliner, or Isuzu for that matter offer the Cummins Octane I doubt they will be able to beat Ford on price. Everything else yeah.... Of course here in a CARB state the only big Fords we see are gas 650's, the Powerstroke has not been available in a couple of years.

To be clear I have not heard and specific rumors the 650 and 750 are to be dropped, but sales of these trucks have been falling.

Don't forget Autocar. Their conventional is interesting.

What Ford really needs to do is figure out how to get diesel 650's and 750's CARB certified. Sorry to say it looks like the 650 and 750 might be on the way out. At this point I don't think the Ford Commercial dealers would mind much, they are moving lots of Transits and 450-600 Super Duty trucks. Ford says they are committed to building medium duty trucks at the Avon Lake plant through the end of the UAW contract, but Avon Lake is building a lot of 450-600 Duty cab and chassis models which are medium duty trucks.

Not a surprise, I think Toyota has wanted to dump Hino since even before their diesel emissions scandal. Eventually I could see Freightliner pull Hino from the U.S. market. No need for it here other than the LCF's, which could be rebadged as Freightliners. Or Sterling, LOL!

I remember when Chrysler dealers used to get their parts and new vehicles delivered in rigs pulled by Dodge CNT-900's and LNT-1000's.

And so it begins: https://www.ivecogroup.com/media/corporate_press_releases/2024/march/ford_trucks_and_iveco_sign_memorandum_of_understanding_to_examine_potential_synergies