Geoff Weeks

I just put my numbers into Spicer's driveshaft calculator and it spits out what I need to know. Critical and 1/2 true critical.

2 minutes ago, Joseph Cummings said:

0.74 ish has been common ever since I can remember. A TRQ7220 was 0.66, a 2050 was 0,60. I think that "High Hole 2 stick based on a TRL107 was like 0.66, and the RTOO9513 in that A Car with the 2 speed Eatons was like 0.62. I'm a firm believer in low axle ratios, but then again I've always been a more or less local guy.  i never had any desire to run OTR where a little bit of fuel milage can put you in the red. As my grandmother used to say "I'd rather pick shit with the chickens"

Got to be careful not to run driveshaft speeds into critical range when using a lot of OD in the front and high reduction in the back. Ran into that a while back with my K-7, had to redesign the driveshaft to keep it out of critical.

2 minutes ago, Mark T said:

Some have a lockout on the range selector so as you can't shift the range when you use the power divider lock out. Which doesn't make much sense as Geoff had mentioned, 3 speeds are one in "high" and one in "low" 

That is the factory correct way, PDL only in low range, locked out in high range.  Since mine was a retrofit, I could do as I wanted. I get PDL in both ranges.

Mine are electric over air, not full air, where the air lines go up the stick and then back down the the frame, back to the rears, That can be the cause of some slow shifts. Mine has full air pressure to an electric solenoid on the frame and electric on the stick that controls both the solenoid and the speedo correction.

10 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

Interesting post's guy's..  I have never seen 2 spd. rears in a twin screw truck.  How do they shift gears, and stay synchronized to each other..?  Sorry, for being a dum dum..

They don't have to, In fact 3 spd rears, were one in low, one in high for intermediate speed. Just have to be careful when you lock the PDL that they are both on the same page.

Mine are plumbed to shift together, both on the same air feed, so they self sync more or less. I love the set-up, but don't often split many gears, I use it more as another range shift. I start in low, run though 10th hole (15 speed) and then downshift the main and up shift the rear for the remaining gears.

 I tend not to run max speed in low as it drives the driveshaft into or close to critical speed, and there is nothing to be gained by doing so.

15 in deep reduction, rear in low and you almost don't need a clutch!

2 minutes ago, Joseph Cummings said:

I borrowed a 4 axle tractor to do moves a couple of times that had a 460 in it. I wasn't very impressed. I think my juiced up Big Cam IV would give it a good run. It was a nice enough truck, but it wasn't what I expected out of something that was a 460

My CPL 676 with a little extra fuel would make 26 psi boost all day long and hit 30 on a good day. Factory it is 400, I don't know what it was putting out when I had it.

1 minute ago, Mark T said:

I can tell you that 4 years ago if you went to a Peterbilt dealer .

 

No, I fixed it, that is the problem.  I built my own DT402's from cores. Still in my Marmon.

18 hours ago, Vac-Daddy said:

I was hoping on getting some insight on doing a swap, Mack 18 to Eaton 18. My Mack tranny needs to be replaced and parts are hard to get and very expensive. I can purchase a very good Eaton 18 For quite cheap from a good buddy of mine. What's everybody's thoughts, please help? 2007 Mack Granite.

We really need a whole lot more info to be of help. How the PTO is set up and what engine exactly is in it.

I know we got a bit off topic, but there are all points to consider.

Believe it or not, Eaton 2spd cores can (or could a few years ago) cheaper than used single speed drop-ins. 2Spd's have bolt on ring gears so easy to re-ratio.

None of it is helpful if it is on Mack rears.

Found this:

If you need to drive off the rear case PTO and select front trans ratio to get the speed you need, the Eaton may be a problem in matching the PTO needs to the available options.

14 hours ago, Vac-Daddy said:

Do you know anybody who's done this swap? I'm worried about the gearing, if i'm gonna be okay or not? Like, if i'm fully loaded, will I still be able to take off out of a driveway on a steep hill...... Are my pto's all gonna be different.  This potentially puts me out of business, depending on the outcome $$$$$$$ I'm terrified 🥺 this is the info on my truck.

You have a lot to weigh and make choices.

From the sounds of it this is your sole means of support. Down time can bankrupt a business or individual.

Can you rent a truck to service your customer base?

If not down time may trump other considerations.

Always faster to go back "like for like".

 I have no info/thoughts on the Mack 18 as I have no experience with them.

In an ideal world, building the truck from a clean sheet of paper, I would have 2spd rears and a 13 up front. Keeps the overall reduction at the back and allows for a smaller and less stressed driveline.

That said you have to start with what you have.

Even the most simple looking swap is going to kill you on the details, new PTO, has to match the operating range of what you have now. It will be in a different locale and require building a driveline for unless all hydraulic. Main driveline will require replacement of at least a section, and then there are the controls and air plumbing.

 All totally do able, but all take time and most can't be started until the lump of the transmission is in place. The are downtime killers.

It may be desirable in the long run to do the swap, but unaffordable in terms of downtime at present.

In an ideal world, you'd have a parts truck just like yours with the Eaton that you could rob all the little in consequential, but time consuming parts you need to buy to complete the change over.

everything always takes much longer than planned. one little part that is un-obtainable  can grind the whole operation to a standstill until found.

quick search online shows that trans has PTO on both the front and rear case, the Eaton will only have on the front case (in most all of them) and so you are limited to a single speed from the engine, if you need more than you'll need a multi speed PTO $$$$

13 hours ago, Vac-Daddy said:

Do you know anybody who's done this swap? I'm worried about the gearing, if i'm gonna be okay or not? Like, if i'm fully loaded, will I still be able to take off out of a driveway on a steep hill...... Are my pto's all gonna be different.  This potentially puts me out of business, depending on the outcome $$$$$$$ I'm terrified 🥺 this is the info on my truck.

This post is where the confusion starts!

here are eaton's ratios

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/transmissions/vehicle-transmissions/eaton-transmission-specifications-catalog-en-us.pdf

Eaton ratios are available online, depends on the age of the transmission in question. Starting in the low end will unlikely be a problem, top speed may be depending on rear ratio.

PTO is going to have to be changed out, and matched to needed speed.

Not going to be a cheap, swap.

17 minutes ago, 67RModel said:

 

Lets reconvene in 2 or 3 days and see what lots 1, 4, 5, 6, & 7 sell for.

Sheesley Vintage Truck Collection - Aumann Auctions, Inc.

I'd say #5 is the only one that is a close enough analogy to have any meaning.  The rest are not at all in the same "class". They have, wrecker bed, to boost the value, or have been updated considerably.

Hard to find something that directly correlates

13 minutes ago, 67RModel said:

I disagree. What it sells for is what its worth. I am confident if that truck were properly advertised and consigned at the proper auction house it would sell for $15,000 or more. Buyers / sellers fees aside the hammer price would be that or better. Thats all I'm saying

If it is worth more to me than what it will sell for, it is worth more to me then the other guy and no sale!  Unless you put a reserve on it, it goes for the hammer price whether you think it should go for more or not.

May be it is a regional thing, out here there are plenty of trucks with more modern spec's going for far less. I would be a very lucky day to see it go for more than Joseph Cummings offered.

I never paid to much attention to what a drivetrain was "rated for" in terms of Ft/lbs.  As long as it is a twin countershaft trans I wouldn't worry.  Did all my heavy haul with 1100 series 13 spd and 14 organic clutch.

Worth can be measured in a sale price or a replacement price. If it worth more to me than you, so be it. In this case I think the sale price will be less than it "worth" to the present owner.

2 hours ago, 67RModel said:

This. Junk Sells For $5000. That truck will bring $15,000 all day and on the weekends. Also, you don't even need to be a member of ATHS to put a classified on ATHS backlot. Can be done by anyone online. At least for wanted ads. Maybe for sale is different. But i remember posting on there before I was a member.

I'm not degrading the truck or its condition, but it has a very limited buyer market.

It can not as presently configured be used commercially on the road, too underpowered. It could be easly re-powered to meet today's requirements, but that is not how it is now, and that determines it value.

The buyer will either be someone who wants to move there own equipment around a farm or to shows, or a collector who wants that model. That is a small pool of purchasers.

Someone who just wants to move equipment around their farm isn't going to give top dollar. too many trucks out there.

A collector will likely value the condition more and be more willing to pay for that condition. They are even harder to find.

2021 I let a road ready, 400hp+ cabover go for 5K after having it for sale for more than a year. It could and was used on the road in today's loads and speeds. The engine was out of chassie overhauled a few years before, and had a new radiator ($2100). 

I'd love for him to see those kinds of prices, but my experience is it would take a lot of advertising and waiting for the right buyer to come along.

No problem asking for a higher price, but when it comes to the final sale, it will be what the buyer and seller agree too.

Again, not knocking the truck, just want to give realistic expectations.

I'd be thrilled with $20K for my 1992 Marmon, and that is more rare, and could easily be put to use on the road today.

Unfortunately, "what it is worth" and "what it will sell for" are two different figures.

I hope you're right but suspect you're a bit optimistic. You'd need to find to "collectors" with deep pockets bidding against each other to see that much I fear.

You will not hear that BS about caps from me! Only illegal on "passenger carrying vehicles" (I.E. bus). 

Ether in tires is just "not best practice", as I said before, needs must when the devil drives.  I have a blaster tank, so I use that.

I have seen more rust inside the rim after ether was used and it was run for a long time. You can still smell it when you break down the tire.

I would run my casings for 3 treads before retiring, they were pulled at that point still "capable" but the age made it unwise. I did an experiment on a few and put a 3 cap on, but the casing failed before that 3 cap wore out.

 That is why I used "best practice", tires were a major cost, and the better I cared for them the less they cost me over the long haul.

At very least it puts combustion gases in the tire, that and some moisture will likely result in acid formation.  Then there is the issue if not all the ether combusts, then you could have a flammable mix in the tire itself.

 All in all it is to be avoided if possible, but yes, I admit to having done it as well.

then there is this:

No idea what it is worth, but love the spokes.

Those 15" trailer tires were known for problems. The tube stem is right against the 12" brake drum. Most switched to 17.5 and never looked back.

 Not surprised it popped a few.

Yes, I know it is wrong, and I very rarely did it, but needs must when the devil drives, a little starting fluid will pop the bead on.

Did it once on a trailer for a guy. He had hit a chunk of concrete and bent the steel rim on those real low profile 22.5 tires they run on a step-deck.

 Took my bottle jack and a 4x4 with the damage part up, jacked it back mostly round, and soaped up the bead with hand cleaner, then popped the tire back with starting fluid.

 He was in Ontario and they take a very dim view of wheel end problems, he had no Canadian cash or a credit card, I got him back across the boarder, with that trick.

2 hours ago, 67RModel said:

Its hard to beat spokes if you want to be self sufficient and do your own work in a more or less shade tree scenario. 

When you are your own carrier, it all comes out of your pocket, the more you keep the better off you are. When I can do it faster and cheaper, I am both money and time ahead!

1 hour ago, mowerman said:

Well, my bud wheels seem to be a little easier to dismount the tires and mount them. I’ve never done them, but I watched a lot of guys change them and it doesn’t take them very long at all. But yes, I do prefer spokes

Disks or spokes, take the same to mount/dismount. Tubeless vs tube type can vary.

The rim portion of a disk and spoke are the same (ok, except for Firestone RH 5 deg) so mount time is the same.

4 hours ago, mowerman said:

Would save alotta money sending people down the road with a spare tire and tools to change it … but these days trying to get drivers to do anything is a whole different subject lol… bob

One Jamoke saw me patching a tube on one of my trailer tires (I had picked up a nail in a jobsite) before I went into dinner.

He commented how "he wasn't paid enough to do that kind of work".

I asked him what he did when he got a flat?

Oh I call road service.

Ok what does that cost?

I don't know, company pays

Ok how much drive time did you loose?

 Only an hour or so

 Well I can patch this tube, re install in the tire and inflate in about 30-40 min, Given road service calls prices I am paying myself between $125- $200/ hr, how much are you paid?

silence.

I always had a mounted spare and tools to change them. Gotta love spokes, inner or outer, done in 20 mins with hand tools.

Well that sucks!