skip

Just to add to kscarbels last comment, I think Mack Australia in the early days just had to put up with limited stock and adapt a few different ideas to the conditions out here with the available stock. ie the FR concept as opposed to the F model chassis. And I think that through the 70's and 80's they made a bit of a name for themselves as being reliable for the conditions and so that allowed them a little bit of room to move on future designs for local models.

It is interesting to compare looks on Super Liners and Titans over the years between the 2 countries though.

Good talk everyone.

Skip

Thanks again guys, I will let you know how it goes when I fire it up tomorrow.

Dave

Reread which part Glenn? I doesnt sound like it is popping when it is turning off. And do you reckon it woud cause the engine to miss and blow smoke? Let me know what you think. Thanks mate

Thanks for the input guys. I would be pretty confident that the RHS heads would be ok as they were done up. The LHS could be an unknown quantity. Would a loose valve seat cause it to blow smoke under light revs? From my experince with a loose valve guide on a 6 cylinder it made the popping sound when you backed off the revs. This V8 seems fine when you back off. This engine and pump sat around for a long time before my cousin bought the truck to restore it. And when we first started it up it flew out to full revs and I had to block the intake to stop it. The LHS rack was stuck in the pump but i managed to get it freed up without removing the pump so we dont know what the pump is like. Could it have a sticky element or maybe a worn cam to make it miss?

Also, how do you go about timing this engine? Is it similar to a 6 cylinder?

Gday everyone.

Ive got an 866 with an irregular miss in it. It only happens every now and then when its idling, but its really noticeable when it starts to rev. Ive just had injectors done, it starts very easily and doesnt breathe heavily. The RHS bank has new rings in it, and the heads have been overhauled. To me it sounds like a fuel pump problem, and the smoke that it blows under revs is fuel smoke. The sound is almost like a sticky engine brake but is not regular and cosistent enough. I am going to check the timing tomorrow. Has anyone got any thoughts?

Thanks, Dave W

What is it for? If its for a VMAC2 on the econovance setup they are expensive. Last I checked the solenoid was over $1000 and the complete unit was around $8000. Hopefully you can find a 2nd hand one. If its only leaking oil you can fill around the harness with araldite and dry it up that way

What do they reckon is wrong with the fuel pump? There are plenty of things to check before you go replacing a fuel pump. When did it start losing power? Is it a recent thing or has it happened gradually? Is the timing right? Are the filters new and are the lines in good condition? Has it got a boost leak? Is the stopper lever returning fully? Are there any fuel leaks? Are your tank breathers blocked? Do you know any history on the engine? Is your throttle pedal getting full travel? Is the puff limiter hooked up and is the reverse relay valve playing up and restricting rack travel in the pump? Most of these are pretty basic things to check but you would want to do them before you go spending the dollars on another pump that you may or may not know the condition of. If you do go down the path of looking for another pump then there is a plate riveted to the side of the pump with the details on it. Good luck with it and let us know how you go.

It certainly looks like a 237 to me. you might have to take off that steering pump and bracketry to read the engine number. It looks like its only got 2 oil filters and the small coolant filter, the tin intake manifold and the way the turbo is mounted looks to be an early design. It certainly wont be a 300 without some sort of intercooler..

Sorry to get off subject a bit for the bloke who started the topic, but if you have a sluggish E9 with a Bosch pump, check the rubber diaphragm in the cover at the back of the pump, if it is perished or split, it wont pull at all when its getting boost.

My dad had a pretty angry 500 in an Ultra Liner and the turbo shit itself, so we put a 610 turbo on it and it went even better. It lowered fuel consumption from around 1.8km/l to around 2.2-3km/l on average. That was on single trailer work, with gross weights of around 45 ton. Now that pump had been mucked around with before we got it, and the truck flew, it was a beast, but blew a heap of smoke and ran pretty hot on the pyro. Once the 610 turbo was fitted, it brought the pyro down and turned the excess black smoke into horsepower. It seemed to have a more even range of boost and pulled better right through the rev range. The only drawback was that it took the beautiful popping noise out of the exhaust. It still sounded alright but nothing like it did with the old turbo.

Skip

Does it make any difference if you bump the idle up? Like theakerstwo said above, sounds like governor is worn. Has the pump got the rectangular plate bolted on the top behind the Vee section? If it does you can take it off and check both racks to see if they are free

Dont think it would be a 237, looks like a naturally aspirated. Reasonably tidy truck for age. Can still get hold of F model glass here in Australia. Good photos, Hopefully she gets picked up by someone who will give her a bit of love

Find an old one and pull it to bits, take note of where things go, and if you are going to put one back together, then get a workshop manual. Even if there is a good class or video on how to work on them, the best way to learn is to get stuck into one yourself. As previously mentioned, they all work on the same principle. The old engines are generally easier to work on then the modern crap too! Just my opinion. Skip

The pump will bolt straight up and all the injector lines are the same. Some of the later 237s had the bakelite coupling with the roll pin between 2 teeth and the early ones had the steel plate with 2 cut outs opposing eachother like an old V8 one. So you may have to change that over. Then as mentioned above just time it to suit the horsepower you want. For the power it will be putting out I cant see you doing any damage. I got an old MBR going a few years back and the engine I put in was a coolpower without the intercooler. It blew a bit of smoke when you got stuck into it but its was ok, It was just a farmer doing a bit of gravel work, the old engine is still going strong. Good luck with it

Are you sure its a pump issue? When you say its running colder at number 6 how did you check it? Have you run it without the exhaust manifold? Or checked the port on that cylinder? Im just saying that you dont want to throw away a few thousand dollars on a fuel pump only to have the same problem when you put the new one one.

That looks really good. What colour is the cab going to be? There were a few of those cabs over here in Australia, they pop up from time to time. Out here it was around 1975/6 when the cab was changed and there was a short time when they combined the 2 ideas.

Skip

I would re-check the timing before you take it back to the pump shop. Did you spill time it? It sounds like they only mucked around with the governor end of the pump so the front end will be basically untouched. There is only one way that pump can go on but there is plenty of room for adjusting timing with the slotted holes in the drive gear. I havent got the specs here with me, but someone will be able to help you on here. The pump might have a tag on it with degrees before TDC.

If you make sure you have done that right, then you have the ammunition to go and ask questions of the pump shop.

Skip

You should be able to get hoses at any big parts warehouse, as most intercooler outlets are a common size. But if you have to buy it from a bearing/hose type shop, make sure its good silicone hose. Ive got some pipes and hoses here but Id reckon the freight might be a killer

Ive got to agree with the above comment(1958 F.W.D) if you only sandblast one area on the truck, make sure its the hubs. I just gave an F model a quick paint to tidy it up, I chipped as much old paint off as I could, and used stripper, and gave it a really good coat of etch prime and then multiple coats of paint, and its already beginning to flake away. And Ive only travelled about 1000 miles.

I will never paint another one without sandblasting. It doesnt matter how good you are with a paint gun, theres no substitute for good surface preparation.

Other than that 2 bob's worth, its coming together really well. Its great to see so much enthusiasm. Keep up the good work and keep the photos rolling in, hopefully it will put the fire in the belly of everyone who follows the post.

Regards,

Skip

Is it an inline pump? Maybe being a marine engine it may have a different governor to a road transport engine. If it is off a later 610 hp engine it will be semi electronic and you may need a harness with it

Let us know how you go

Skip

I thought by records that there may have been around 270 R719's listed, only in the USA. Thats not to say that every single number was actually produced. Im not sure on the number of F models made with that engine.

They were certainly a work of art, its a pity they werent all that reliable, from all accounts. I can imagine the fuel pump would be a nightmare to get to if the engine was hot! Its good to hear a bit of first hand knowledge about them. Are there many left sitting around iin America?

Im sorry to the old mate who started the conversation, we've got off track a bit! How did you go? Did the info help you out at all?

Again, Great info guys, keep the old V8 stuff coming in, there isnt enough of it

Regards,

Skip

That looks unreal Mackdaddy. Is that an R719? I thought there were more than 34 END864T engines all up but definitely only a handful in Australia. How far did you go with the engine? Is it a full rebuild or did you get hold of a good runner? There isnt much room for the throttle link to get through from the firewall to the pump! No such troubles on the naturally aspirated engine. Is the front cross member in that truck the same as an R600? It looks the same as the one used with a 6 cylinder. My R615RS has a different crossmember, a mate out here said it is unique to a Flintstone front. I will try and get a photo uploaded.

Ron, the F719T wouldve been a rare animal, the 2 or 3 out here were bogie drive. Do you know the difference between the PSM and PSJ pumps? I thought purely because J comes before M in the alphabet that the PSJ was an earlier pump, possibly the 255hp setting. And maybe the PSM was the last of them that went to 280 and up to 300 with the turbo.

Great info everyone.

Skip

I can imagine they would've Ron. Did you have anything to do with the twin turbo engines? There were only ever 3 or so out here to my knowledge. I'd love to find one and get it going

An E9 has 3 oil filters, and 865/6 generally only have 2 and an 864 will generally have an external cartridge oil filter fitted.

An E9 has a square looking sump, an 865/5 is similar but is rounded outward between the two sides and an 864 has a shallow sump with deep well section at one end.

E9 has 2 separate exhaust ports per head where the earlier V8s only have one, and the 865/6 have 4 bolts pre port and the 864s only have 2.

864 has a tin rocker cover which uses a mongrel gasket on a rolled sealing surface like a 2 valve E6. The 865/6 were like a cast alloy cover seemed to have 2 different styles, one had sharper lines and the other was rounded, but used the same gasket. E9 looks more like an E6 4 valve cover.

The 864s had a rotary fuel pump except for a few very late ones, and had no turbo, so they are pretty easy to tell apart.

Thats a few changes that you can see quite easily.

Skip

Ive got the same sort of problem with a 427hp E7. The only difference is that the smoke only lasts a few seconds. Similar cause you think? Check engine light does not come on at any stage. Regards, Skip

Yeah mate Im hearin ya, it was a big show, around 270 trucks i heard. It is hard to catch up sometimes but I should be kickiing around at a few shows yet with a bit of luck!!

Thanks, regards, Skip