mattb73lt

Nice find. Be careful waking up the Hall-Scott, those are pretty rare engines now and parts can be hard to find. If you can, keep it indoors. Fire trucks don't do well stored outside due to all the chrome.

My B42 had fixed (non-operating) shutters when I got it, having a EN402 installed from the factory. From what I've seen, I believe they were an option on smaller gas jobs. I put them in, from a donor, when I converted it to diesel. The diesel engined B's all seem to have them, except the very late production ones the had that fixed grill. Fire trucks are a whole different animal. I would think they would've had shutters as they were built to operate statically for long periods while pumping. The shutters would help keep the engine at operating temps while in extreme cold conditions. 

1 hour ago, mechohaulic said:

"old time cummins diesel mechanic";; how old ?😃. anyone from cummins CT from hartford (brainard rd ?).don't know what's there  now. haven't been that way in many years. an  instructor there :Fred Munday think his name. service manager gray hair with beard , the shop foreman = shorter guy. one of them may have been named Ray. there was a crew of the best quality, the knowledge and personality. the good days.  DD had bill black (bell Detroit).

He’s 76, Rocky Rockwell. The Murphy Rd Cummins by Brainard Field is long gone and now an O&G stone place. I used to go there when I worked at Brainard. Cummins Metro Power in Rocky Hill is the place now. Not too helpful, unless you spoon feed them what you need.

Yeah, no major damage or spun bearings. Dodged a big bullet there. The machine shop will go through it and magna-flux everything for cracks after it's hot tanked. Once they figure out if the crank needs to be ground, I can start sourcing what's needed for reassembly.

7 hours ago, skydawg said:

Wow,those pics are incredible.I don`t have the necessary shop or equipment,so I`ll do my best next Spring in the frame.Is acetone a good degreaser/prep choice?

I’d use something heavier, if it’s dirty. Scrape the heavier stuff first, then degrease. A steam cleaner would be great if you can get one. If not, oven cleaner like Easy-Off can really work well, especially if the engine is still in the truck. Wear gloves if you use Easy-Off as it’ll burn your hands, it’s pretty caustic.You want it as clean as possible for the paint to stick. I wash it down with a good pre-paint wash like FT 200 that you can get at NAPA. Then get a good engine enamel from Eastwood or Bill Hirsch. Those paints are worth it as they’re formulated to last and made just for engine applications. A small touch up or detail spray gun is great for putting it on and getting all the nooks and crannies without putting out too much product and making a mess.

24 minutes ago, mattb73lt said:

Sure, give me a bit to dig it up.

25 minutes ago, Nor'Easter said:

Matt, would you mind sharing the insert part number you used in the exhaust stack? I believe it was a 5" stack?

Purchased from Iowa80, Quiet Muffler insert for 5” stack, P/N 185086

Just now, Nor'Easter said:

Matt, would you mind sharing the insert part number you used in the exhaust stack? I believe it was a 5" stack?

Sure, give me a bit to dig it up.

6 minutes ago, Mark T said:

Rolled O ring.... rust jacked O ring.... same effect. Gotta remember, these engines were never 55 + years old before. Even an 855 is getting a little long in the tooth. What did the inside of the liners look like ?  Something was happening to that engine before you ever laid eyes on it, someone already put one piston in it at least .

They were all really clean, but #6. No scuffing on the bores or skirts. I agree with the age issue. If ever faced with this again, I would open it up and check them and replace all the seals just to be sure. It'll get done now. I've been sourcing the parts, but need to tear it down some more to get a full list of parts needed. I do have a Cummins contact that I hopefully get to come to the shop to help in the evaluation and rebuilding efforts.

Yup, manga flux is still very common, dye penetrant, too. I think I was heading for trouble with these sleeve seals, one way or another. I think they were damaged during installation and not rolled as #4 & #5 bores and pistons were clean. I borrowed the sleeve puller from Matt Pfahl and we were having a discussion on older Cummins engines. He has a tuned (400 HP) Cummins in his crew cab Superliner. He had sleeve issues on it during a vacation trip. We were both of the opinion of tearing them down to at least pull the sleeve and reseal them to check for corrosion. Both our engines had sat for some time before going back into use.

As for noise, yeah it was making a racket. That was why I thought I spun a bearing. What I was hearing though, was piston slap. When tearing it down, I was turning it over by hand and #6 would cant way over as it came up the bore. Doing so because there was no lower bore to control it.

Restoration Specialties should have them and Chuck Roser (kingofsalvage.com) carries them.

From what I see in your photos, if that sleeve presses on and is designed to wear, it wouldn’t be very hard to have one machined up if you can’t find a new one. It may not need to be hardened if it’s purpose is to wear, either.

The Holy Grail of Mack trucks. About 2,000 built and every year more re-appear, I wonder how many actually survived? 

Sacrilege that someone would have the balls to steal the fenders off it! A thought on that, I wonder if a pair of Peterbilt aluminum front fenders could be re-worked to fit, at least to get it back on the road. Someone was making fiberglass LT fenders a long time ago, but I don’t recall who.

One of theses things is not like the others...... They're out and still no visible damage to the block. We'll see about that as I clean it up and have someone look at it. If I was a betting man, I would say the main cause of the failure was poor workmanship and improper installation of the sleeves. While things were a little crusty on the inside, I found no major pitting on the sleeves. But, #4 & #5 and probably #6(too much is missing to be sure) had lower seals the were damaged, split and broken. What I think happened, was that as I was driving it they began to leak dumping the coolant into the pan. It then began to overheat #6 and score and break the sleeve. The temperature sender is way up in the thermostat housing and not in the block, once it runs dry it's not going to read an overheat internally. 

Yeah, I’m in agreement with Glenn, too. I did have wet fuel on top of 3 piston heads, 6 being one of them when the heads came off. I barely ran it when I turned it around in the driveway. Everything was covered in oil as it came apart. I’m hoping to see some other kind of evidence to the cause when the sleeves come out. #1 piston looks brand new with almost no wear seen on it.

A lot goes into “what’s it worth?”, when looking it something. Is it what you want? Does it have the driveline that’ll make it drivable the way you want to use it? Is it’s basic configuration useable to you, body on it(as in a dumper or flatbed?)?. General condition, rust bodywork, paint?

Is it a project or something turn key? That’s a big question, because if you don’t have the space, tools and skills to do it yourself, it’s going to cost you a lot more to pay someone to do it for you.

It was running great and sounded amazing on the road. Really good oil pressures and temps...until it failed. I think time was my biggest enemy. I was told it was a fairly fresh rebuilt when I bought it, but then it sat 20+ plus years in my shop before I had it running. Even if there was only a little corrosion on the liners it doesn't take much moisture to keep it going, just even a little bit. I pickled it, but I didn't fill the water jacket with anything. Maybe if I had filled and drained the water jacket with oil just in case. Tear down will show it there any corrosion in there.

Mahoney's is still around. They were VERY helpful when I was adding the Jake to the engine, by loaning me some fixtures to grind the rocker arms. Thank you for those numbers, They may come in handy as I move forward. I was in contact with the local Cummins shop in Rocky Hill, CT. The person I spoke to was very helpful and optimistic about putting a rebuild kit together, if needed.

3 minutes ago, yarnall said:

I’m not trying to rub salt in your wounds.  How much will you have to take the truck apart to get the engine out and how will you avoid messing up the paint?  I’m no mechanic.

 I’m sorry for you loss.  Thoughts and prayers and all the other dumb stuff that people say.  I know you can fix it though.  Mike.   

I’m going to pull the hood, fenders and radiator off and store them until the engine goes back in.. The rest I’ll leave where it is until it goes back in. All that should go faster than when I was putting it together, as all the fabrication and hardware is there now. The engine will go back into the shop for more work. It’ll need to go out for some work, but I’ll do most of it. I was on the phone and internet a lot today, sourcing parts and services for the rebuild.