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Whiskymack last won the day on May 4 2018

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About Whiskymack

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  1. Yes, that's just what I was looking for. Thank you.
  2. All the 771's have this modification so it must have been factory. I guess that they were so few in number that it was not economical to produce a longer hood so they came up with the cowl extension instead. You know me, I like figures so I was hoping to find out exactly how many inches were added!
  3. Does anyone know the BBC dimension for the Detroit Dozen RS771? It's longer than the standard RS700 and you can see there's an infill between the cowl and hood. I know these are rare beasts but I was hoping that maybe someone has access to one and could measure that extra cowl infill or that there are some figures available somewhere. Another model project.
  4. https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/192800269/1971-mack-rs700l Beautiful! Price tag to match.
  5. Sorry, I think I muddied the waters because I thought we were talking about RW 1 and RW 2 models whereas we are really talking about RWL/S and RWI. Perhaps the 2nd Generation Super-Liner should have been RMH! So, to summarize; Hayward closed in 81 and all Western model production moved to Macungie or elsewhere. RWS/L Super-Liner continued with split frame. WS/L Cruise-Liner with split frame continued with improvements and cosmetic changes like new grill to match Super-Liner. RS/L Value-Liner continued as was. WS/L Cruise-Liner discontinued in 83, replaced by brand new design MH. RWS/L Super-Liner discontinued in 85 replaced by RWI Super-Liner using MH frame. RS/L Value-Liner discontinued in 87 marking the end of a 2 decade distinctive Western product run. Back to R700's, 865's, 866,s 1000/1005's and E9's. Vlad I see what you mean about the valve covers. It also means that the whole cylinder head casting is a bit different too. Found this video whilst comparing.
  6. Glad to bring back memories. I have only ever come across two of those pre facelift Western Contractors; the one in the brochure and the other on this site:
  7. I don't know much about the detailed differences but I think late production 865's and 866's may have looked similar to the E9. The obvious difference is that the E9 had Chassis Mounted Charge Air Cooling which meant there was an aftercooler in front of the radiator along with the piping that went with it. Can we see some models?
  8. Misleading publicity from Mack! I took a look at that brochure again. There is a picture of an unbadged Value-Liner labelled as an RD but later in the brochure there is a correctly labelled Western Contractor RD! The brochure is dated 87 so the Value-Liner must have gone by then. Here's a link to it but I can only open it with google Chrome. Firefox or Edge don't seem to like it. Photo: MackConstr87-04 | Mack Construction Trucks 1987 album | modeltrucks25
  9. Yes, I've come across the Western Contractor. Wasn't it an RD with the old hood and a lookalike but slightly smaller Western style grill? I remember seeing a Mack construction brochure from the 80's which had both the Western Contractor and the Value-Liner in the lineup so there must have been a period when both models were available.
  10. Thats the impression I had got. I would have thought it would have involved too much redesign on a product that had effectively been superceded by the Super-Liner. Incidentally, if RW1 production went to Macungie in 85 it would must have been quite short lived as I thought that the RW2 emerged the following year. It's an interesting period because there seemed to be a bit of product consolidation going on with the demise of Hayward line. The RW2 was a complete redesign with much more of an Eastern pedigree whilst retaining the looks of the old model. Am I right in thinking the Value-Liner also went to Macungie but was discontinued in 87?
  11. That makes a lot of sense. Did the R-700 ever get the E9? It seems like there wasn't much room in there for CMCAC without a redesign of the front end.
  12. Just curious about the end production date for the R700. It got a bit of a design revamp in the mid 1970's as we've discussed elsewhere here but it would seem to me that after the introduction of the Superliner there must have been a bit of duplication. The Western RS/RL 700 was discontinued at this time but what about the Eastern R700? All of the larger engine options such as Cummins, Cat, Detroit, 865, 866 and later E9's were available in the Superliner so the R700 would seem a little superfluous in that respect.
  13. Sad to say I am! I've followed this thread with interest although I'm a bit out of my depth when it comes to frame depth. It is interesting to see how engineers managed to get standardized parts to fit not standardized frames with spacers and repositioning but it must open a whole can of worms when it comes to rebuilding with donor parts. I had noticed the difference between the frame horns before. The ones on the 88 R and 86 RD go on the outside of the frame rails whereas the ones with the towing eyelet at the bottom go on the inside of the frame rails and I believe were an earlier design. I think they stopped using them on the standard R model around about the time that the corporate bumper came in although they kept them on the U series for a few more years and you can see cutouts at the bottom of the corporate bumper to access the towing eyelets. I've neverseen these cutouts on an R. Before the corporate bumper, the eyelets were below the bottom edge of the shallower bumper. The radiator set up is also a whole topic in itself. Keith pointed out that the radiator mount bolted to tabs on the eyelet frame horns. I think that the engine sat on a cradle which bolted to the back of this mount. When the externally mounted frame horns came in the radiator mount was a kind of wide flattened u shaped crossmember which looks like it bolts to the inside of the frame rails possibly using the same bolts that attach the frame horns. Again the engine was held in a cradle that bolted to the back of this. In both cases the radiator sat quite high. In the Econodyne era the R600 got the tall radiator that dropped down between the frame rails and was held by brackets on the inside of the rails. The engine was held in an asymetrical u shaped crossmember which was mounted behind the radiator. I'm not sure if this was all to do with introduction of CMCAC. I didn't know that the eyelet horns and short radiators were still beng used in 1985. Was a 1985 RD685 still Maxidyne powered with no CMCAC and in that case did the non air cooled Maxidyne 675 stay in production alongside the Econodyne range? This also leads me to start asking questions about the R700 but I'll open a new thread rather than drag this one too far off topic.
  14. You are right. There were so many small changes made over the production run of each model. Just looking at the Western R's there were a variety of cab mounts, and other frame fittings over the years. This is what really piques my interest; finding the design differences and trying to work out the logic behind them. I compared some Valueliner pics, pre and post Econodyne. Difficult to know exactly how the extra space for the aftercooler was achieved but this is what I think they did: Moved radiator back a fraction New hood hinge to push hood forward. (A lot of later Valueliners had a gap of about an inch or so between hood and cowl. I always thought this was to allow a bit of travel for air ride cabs but perhaps it was because the hood got moved forward) Possibly a spacer between bumper and frame horns to push bumper forward but very hard to tell from photos. Would need actual trucks and a ruler!
  15. To answer my own question it looks like the hood was moved forward based on an '85 Valueliner RS600L spec sheet. The bumper to front wheel centre is given as 29.75 inches whereas it was only 28 on the 70's specsheet. I don't know if the same applied to the Eastern model but it would seem a lot easier to me to extend the bumper mounts and hood hinges than move the cab back.
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