Purchase 2004 RD688S vs. 2000 RD960S Concrete truck

[Tavo]

I'm new to the trucking world and looking to purchase a concrete truck. I've always loved Mack trucks so i've decided to make one my 1st. There are two trucks i'm interested in (2004 & 2000) but they both have their goods and bads. I had a mechanic look at the 2004 and the only issues it had was electrical (headlights / flashers / cab controls & rear controls for drum no working). Mechanically, everything seemed good. I've also been doing my research and found that this year, Macks were placing EGR systems in their motors and had many issues. The truck has 220k miles on it, so not sure if these issues have already been resolved, or if it has never had those issues. Like i said, mechanic said everything worked fine. The 2000 doesn't have that EGR system, but the truck looks like it's been sitting for months. Mechanic hasn't seen the truck, but the motor sounds healthy to me. The odometer shows 152k miles. The cement drum looks like it wasn't taken care of much, still spins though. Should I consider buying the 2004, even with the risk of the EGR problems. Or go for the 2000? The lot both trucks are in will fix any electrical issue and paint the drum and cab of which ever truck I buy, but i'm not worried about that. worried about problems down the road. 

[Joey Mack]

As a MACK mechanic for 23 years, I have a lot of opinions....  The 2000 model  has had its share of issues, cam/ lifters,,,  and bridge pins, weak engine brakes, EUP codes, (8-1 through 6),and 8-9,  pushing coolant out of the surge tank,,,, ( stupid design) trying to manage 12 gallons of coolant in a 3/4 gallon tank... just my opinion there.  this engine has run up to a million miles... The 2004 has a redesigned valve train with ceramic lifter rollers for the valves, and spring loaded pushrods on the exhaust valves, however, the Powerleash engine brake is much better than the 690 Jacobs brake on the 2000... assuming there is engine brakes on these units. the 2004, CEGR has a boatload of sensors and High Dollar exhaust parts, Turbo+ EGR valve and cooler, for example... you will certainly have 8-? codes, 4-9, and 9-5, every 6 months...   so here are a few of my opinions, there will be several folks commenting on this topic, and you will learn a lot.. there are very smart people here.   My suggestion is to get as much repair history as you can.  also, it's odd that they would make repairs if you buy one but not repair it to keep it. what do you think? as far as cement truck bodies, wiring issues can be expected because of the cement dust and fluid cement getting into every damn opening. this damages the wiring in a bunch of different ways, corroasion, chaffing, just plain pulling the wires apart, and so-on... Good luck with this purchase,  and trust youre gut! Jojo

[Joey Mack]

I forgot to tell you that on the front valve cover, on both, there is a data plate, everything you need to know, to start research, is right there... jojo

[Tavo]

23 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

As a MACK mechanic for 23 years, I have a lot of opinions....  The 2000 model  has had its share of issues, cam/ lifters,,,  and bridge pins, weak engine brakes, EUP codes, (8-1 through 6),and 8-9,  pushing coolant out of the surge tank,,,, ( stupid design) trying to manage 12 gallons of coolant in a 3/4 gallon tank... just my opinion there.  this engine has run up to a million miles... The 2004 has a redesigned valve train with ceramic lifter rollers for the valves, and spring loaded pushrods on the exhaust valves, however, the Powerleash engine brake is much better than the 690 Jacobs brake on the 2000... assuming there is engine brakes on these units. the 2004, CEGR has a boatload of sensors and High Dollar exhaust parts, Turbo+ EGR valve and cooler, for example... you will certainly have 8-? codes, 4-9, and 9-5, every 6 months...   so here are a few of my opinions, there will be several folks commenting on this topic, and you will learn a lot.. there are very smart people here.   My suggestion is to get as much repair history as you can.  also, it's odd that they would make repairs if you buy one but not repair it to keep it. what do you think? as far as cement truck bodies, wiring issues can be expected because of the cement dust and fluid cement getting into every damn opening. this damages the wiring in a bunch of different ways, corroasion, chaffing, just plain pulling the wires apart, and so-on... Good luck with this purchase,  and trust youre gut! Jojo

Thanks for the input, really detailed and helpful. I came across a couple of 1995 RD's with about 150k miles each. Looks like they came from the same fleet, both very clean. Looking at the pictures they seem well maintained (not so sure about the way the engine looks). Would you say those had the same problems the 2000 came with? Or would you say the older models like the 95's were better built? I'll be looking at it tomorrow. Depending on how the motor runs, I may bring in a mechanic to look at it at a later date.

[Joey Mack]

E-7...... great!!  PAI has a bunch of parts for this engine. Mack dealers, not so good...  Robert Bosch pump, looks dry on the outside.. Looks like the A/C works.... seems like the clutch is in.....  I wish I was shopping with you...  I live near Charlotte, N.C. I am able to get Inj. Pumps, Injectors, and turbo's re-built...  I Just put one on an E-9 on tuesday. great test drive.... anyway, my small point here is that, if you have shops that can do these jobs for the engine, that may help youre decision.   I wish you good luck.  Jojo

[Tavo]

On 7/8/2021 at 7:39 PM, Joey Mack said:

E-7...... great!!  PAI has a bunch of parts for this engine. Mack dealers, not so good...  Robert Bosch pump, looks dry on the outside.. Looks like the A/C works.... seems like the clutch is in.....  I wish I was shopping with you...  I live near Charlotte, N.C. I am able to get Inj. Pumps, Injectors, and turbo's re-built...  I Just put one on an E-9 on tuesday. great test drive.... anyway, my small point here is that, if you have shops that can do these jobs for the engine, that may help youre decision.   I wish you good luck.  Jojo

hahaha yea man, wish you were here to help out with the buy, I certainly need it. I went out there today to check them out. 1st truck seemed good over all. Motor sounded good up until i pressed the clutch. Every time i pressed the clutch, it made a rattling sound. Guess it needs a new clutch. I also noticed that both sides of the rear suspension had plates welded onto the outer suspension frame. Not sure if its just the outer shell or not, but that raises a big red flag for me. Second truck I saw was identical looking, assuming it came from the same fleet. This one is the one you saw on the previous pictures i posted. Engine sounded great like the first truck, no leaks visible, exhaust clear as can be, clutch working good, overall good truck. But had the same issues as most of the mixer trucks i've seen (wiring issues controlling the mixer drum from the cab and rear of truck). Like you said, this problem is common on these trucks due to the exposure they go through. But this truck was the best one i've seen. I'll be taking a mechanic over to check it out soon. If he gives the thumbs up, i'll negotiate a deal with the lot (the lot has a mechanic shop that'll fix anything wrong with the truck, so truck will leave the lot working 100%). I'll be new to the concrete and trucking business soon, but i can tell you this, I'm now extremely interested in learning a lot more about trucks than concrete. Thanks for your help! Any other advice i'm open to. I tried posting more of the pictures i took earlier but it's giving me an error message. Anyway, if you're interested in seeing them just shoot me an email. 

Tavo