RS Disposal

1 hour ago, Joey Mack said:

I feel your frustration.  Hopefully, the help you got here will get you where you need to be..  

The help I have gotten here was definitely invaluable and very much appreciated.

Well, I learned my lesson about relying on other people/shops that are regulars in the heavy truck world to see about sourcing parts.  Didn't even have the courtesy of letting me know they didn't have time after telling me the would let me know what they find or can't find.  Hench started my quest for the parts myself.  If I had just started doing it myself I would probably be 2-3 weeks ahead of where I am now.

Every website that said they had a head in stock, once I called they did not have one.  So I have taken the head into my machine shop (this guy went above and beyond communicating and trying to help me source a head locally. Definitely will have any and all future work I might need done.). Guess I'll see what the verdict is as far as any cracks.  Took a jeweler's magnifier eye loop on high power and a real bright light after I cleaned the head and didn't see any possible cracks.  Hopefully when it gets Magnafluxed it will tell me the same thing.  New valves, seals, seats and guides are all repairable.

Have gotten my bottom end parts in so I get to start putting that back together.  My shop manual that came with the truck only shows torques for head bolts (175), exhaust studs (35), intake manifold (33-37) & injector nozzle stud nut (16-18).  Can't seem to find the connecting rod, pan bolts, water manifoild, rocker cover bolts & turbo mounting bolt torques.  Any info in this area is greatly appreciated

pretty sure I know the answer, but have available a head from an engine that is 10 yrs newer than mine.  engine model number EM6-300L

casting number 5311A

also the guy has an engine model number E6-250

Head isn't off the either engine so not really sure what it looks as far as a match

Like I said, pretty sure I know the answer and that it isn't a working match

1 minute ago, Joey Mack said:

they are re-usable...

thank you

Sorry for all the questions, but as I mentioned earlier this is my first heavy truck engine.  Been cleaning up bolts and misc parts today in prep for new parts later this week. How important is it that I replace all the head bolts?

3 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

RS Disposal,,  Will you be able to use any of the info i posted?  I sure hope so..  I can E-mail the pictures to you if you are willing to share your e-mail..  Jojo

I do believe it is of some help. any and all part numbers I have has been of help being the only supplier I have been working with that can do anything with the VIN number is the dealer. Everybody else tells me the VIN number is not a good Mack VIN.  Dealer has been really helpful in looking up and providing me with Mack part numbers.  With that info I have been able to pretty much track down what I need that is no longer available thru the dealer.

Pics would be great

rs.disposal@gmail.com

20 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

I think but do not hold me to this that as long as it has the right amount of studs and is a two valve head off a E6 it should be okay

If the injector is stuffed as it probably (definitely) is now and you reckon the head might be as well, just take a die grinder to the remnants of the injector and carefully get stuck into it with a bur bit in the die grinder

If nothing else you will learn a bit about it

Dunno about changing the whole motor with another second hand motor 

You dunno what your buying, no matter how well intentioned the seller may be 

Everything you do to this motor now is a known quantity, chucking some other unknown quantity in is like throwing good money after bad to me 

Anyway thats my 2 cents worth

 

Paul

I wasn't considering changing out the whole engine .  Was just thinking of having spare parts. I don't have anything in my shop big enough to take the cab off and lift an engine out.  As stated in previous posts this engine only has about 150,000 miles on it.  Unfortunately a collet broke dropping the valve into the cylinder. Being the guy is willing to sell just the head I am assuming that it isn't a running core, therefore as far as spare parts not sure actually what there might be and what I might need.

In my search for a head I keep hearing that it must be the same casting number as my head.  What is the difference between the casting numbers?  Anybody really know what heads will work?  I know there is a 4 valve and a 2 valve head and since mine is 2 valve it is obvious as to what I need there.

I may of found a core engine that the guy says matches my engine ID plate.  Says he will sell just the head, but if I want the whole engine I can do that also.  Limited info on this engine right now until monday as to whether it is a running core or not and I will also ask about casting number.  Engine is 90 miles north of me which isn't a big deal if I really want to go look at it.  Not sure how I will unload it off the trailer, but guess I cross that bridge when I get there.

Also another question about sources additional parts.  I think I finally found the intake & water manifold gaskets and what looks like exhaust gaskets through AGKITS (which shows them as being PAI, but when my supplier was talking with them they couldn't find anything other than head gaskets.  Questions now is where can I find the metal nut keepers ( not sure what they are called) where you fold over the tab on the exhaust manifold.?  The gasket set doesn't show those.

My machine shop is having a hard time getting an injector out, which has to happen before he can send the head for repair.  Says he doesn't have alot of time to work on that issue.  Going to go pick it up and work on it myself.  Any pointers as to what I should try?

2 hours ago, terry said:

Biggest problem with them heads are cracks between valve seats and between injector hole and valve seat.    terry

I did notice a small crack between the injector hole and valve seat.   I am hoping that the shop is able to tell me that the head is repairable.

Just now, terry said:

Just checked your profile says you’re in Utah, I might know of some of them here, but you’re a long way from Omaha.🤷‍♀️. Terry

Yea, I am.  Not too many older trucks in the west from what I understand.  If my head isn't repairable then finding a good rebuildable in a wrecking yard is my next move and if need be having it shipped

Just now, terry said:

That rebuilt head from Vander Haggs didn’t work out?    Terry

I called and they told me that it was actually out of stock at this time but I could check back being they are continually rebuilding heads

On 10/6/2023 at 6:41 PM, 880joe said:

Would a head from a 84 or 85 2 valve e6 be the same?

Im not sure.  Maybe somebody here can answer that.  I will also maybe go back to the dealer and see if they are able to answer that question

On 10/5/2023 at 9:11 AM, Geoff Weeks said:

Pictures? Important to know WHY it happened, was the spring break a result of the collision or the cause?

My machine shop agrees with what I feel was the cause. Keeper broke and caused valve to drop and hit piston.  From wear marks and the way the keeper broke it appears the valve stem wore to the point the rocker was hitting the keeper resulting in it breaking.

Obviously the piston is destroyed.  Machine shop says if head cracked there is a company they deal with that specifically specializes in repairing cracked diesel heads. Not cheap but at this point my only option is to have this head rebuilt.

Hoping to find the time this weekend to get the pan pulled

On 9/29/2023 at 6:49 AM, RS Disposal said:

Now that definitely looks like what I am wanting.  I will have to give them a call.  Going to try and get the head pulled this weekend to access the damage and to decide where to go from there.  I really appreciate the link

As with everybody else that shows the head on their website, It isn't currently available

On 9/27/2023 at 8:29 AM, JoeH said:

I'd bet your head is fine, and piston may have a tiny dent in it that needs to be deburred.  When you take the head off, DONT set it down right side up, you will crush the injector nozzles! You will probably just need the one valve, maybe the guide,  and maybe a valve seat? 

Got the head off. Goping to take it to the machine shop and have it check.  Needs at least both #4 cylinder valves and at least one seat and valve guide & an injector..  Piston is destroyed.

On 9/29/2023 at 9:28 AM, Geoff Weeks said:

Before you pull the trigger on a rebuilt head, look and see what can be found in "running core" or used engines.  If you have a place to work and store indoors, a spare engine is always handy.

I purchased a running core that needed a water pump and a little freshening for less than the head cost.  It did turn out the engine needed a fuel pump (855 Cummins) but it ran up and down the road as installed. Point being having a whole engine, even if it needs work, can be helpful to have a ready at hand set of cores to send off or repair yourself.

 I spent the last 30 years, being a sole proprietor, and almost exclusively doing my own work. Having back-ups so to not disappoint customers when the un planned for happens can be worth the cost.

I haven't had any luck so far in finding a used head as of yet, but honestly haven't spent a lot of time in that direction yet.

8 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

I have 1 suggestion for when you put the head back on......   find some 5/8'' threaded rod and cut 2-4 pieces long enough to stick above the heads to use as guide bolts..  Head gaskets arent cheap and since you had to 'snake' it out, you will have to snake it back in..  there are 2 small 1/4'' deck dowels that stick up a 1/4''.  if they are good and round, leave them alone.     If you have to remove them you can use a claw hammer. place a small piece of sheet metal on the deck for protection, and place the claw end on it.  Then gently drive the hammer into the pin with another hammer and pry the pin out..  they do not require a lot of force.. the pins are in stock at Mack.. Jojo

I was actually able to tie the injectors tubes back no problem and lift the head straight up and off the dowels.  They are in good shape.  #4 piston is destoryed but no surprise there.  Going to take head in to machine shop to see if they can rebuild.  I know right off hand after inital inspection that it will need 2 valves, exhaust valve guide and seat and an injector.

I am thinking that this damage wasn't necessarily caused by valve float. Leaning more to the fact the valve spring keeper broke, still probably caused by overspeed on engine, which allowed the exhaust valve to drop and strike the piston and break.  Just my thoughts.  

On 9/26/2023 at 12:56 PM, RS Disposal said:

My heads are 18 bolt

Actually they are 20 bolt. 2 bolts I couldn't see when counting were under the rocker arm

I finally got some spare time to start pulling this head off  So far I have been able to get all the bolts etc and being 2 piece manifolds only needing to pull the back half.  Did pull the entire exhaust though.  Only thing I can seem to get loos are the hard fuel lines from the pump to the injectors.  Got the injector end no problem but the pump end won't budge and don't want to round off the nuts.  It doe look like I can snake the head off being the lines do have a fair amount of movement.

I know I have problems with #4, but when I pulled the exhaust manifold I had oil run out of both 4 & 5 ports. Ports 1 - 3 look good, dry and just black soot so it look like I'm dealing with just the rear head.

Again, I want to that everyone here for their support and suggestions.  Like I have mentioned before, I'm a light truck mechanic and have been twisting wrenches from about the age of 6 with my dad, and this is my first heavy truck engine tearing into.  I will post here my progress and what I find.  Anybody feel free to send guidance and or tips etc. I'm not too proud and know when to ask for help.

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

My strategy is typically remove valve covers and oil pan to get eyes on all the internals. There is a fair amount of manifold work on this particular engine to get the head ready to come off, but it's gotta be done, whether he needs a valve or a head.  I'd have that head off right away too, but I think RS is working through a mechanic, so there may be a DIY factor missing.

I was trying to work thru a shop, but nobody seems to really want to work on this older truck because of the availability issue of parts, so they aren't working too hard in sourcing the said parts.  I didn't want to get it to a shop and have them tear it down and then tell me that they are unable to do anything.  So I am going to pull the head myself.  I'm just a one man show and with my backup truck out of commission being hit by a drunk driver, It's been really time consuming servicing my customers.  Truck only has about 150,000 mile on it so hoping lifters and cam are ok.  Truck was running great before the mishap

On 9/27/2023 at 9:47 AM, Joey Mack said:

Try Agkits.com, raneys truck parts, or just use Google to find a P.A.I. vendor... you may get what you need..

Talked with P.A.I and they said they no longer offer thhis particular head, but on the bright side they do still offer pistons if I need one

On 9/27/2023 at 2:29 PM, Geoff Weeks said:

Is this what you are looking for? Not cheap, but quick way out.

https://www.vanderhaags.com/detailview.php?part=24898211

Now that definitely looks like what I am wanting.  I will have to give them a call.  Going to try and get the head pulled this weekend to access the damage and to decide where to go from there.  I really appreciate the link