Mack58B42

What are they hauling that requires 6 axles - lead?  I've never seen a 'quint-axle' dump truck before.  Even in pics.  In fact, I've never seen any more than a tri-axle up in this area. Interesting.....

Cardi runs pretty much all Mack, and has for years.  They take pretty good care of their rigs, and run them forever, but when they do buy something new, it's generally nice equipment. 

I was going about 35mph when I went past this, so couldn't get a very close look at any markings on it.  I'm surprised the pic actually came out as good as it did.  Anyone know what model this is and about what vintage?  I'm at a point where I can't really tell all the newer models apart from one another, except the Titan (and I haven't actually seen one of those on the road yet...), and the Granite, pretty much because it says "Granite" on it, and I'm a dump truck fiend, which seems to be what I see the Granites on mostly, at least around here.

Spotted this newer Cardi Construction lowboy horse in Westerly yesterday.  Nice looking truck....

(Note: when I loaded this, it was showing rotated 90 degrees.  I rotated it in my computer so the nose is facing down, and now it shows correctly below in the attachment area.  So if it's not oriented correctly, I apologize.....)

Welcome!  Checked out some of your work - very nice!!

3 hours ago, GA_Dave said:

Engine 5-4-2, Lampeter, PA (retired & collector owned)

1955 Mack B-85

750/500

Oooohhh....... I like that color scheme!

It's getting interesting - I hope you find it, and can't wait to see how far the search takes you.  It was certainly a beautiful rig, and it would be sad to find out that doesn't exist any more....

8 hours ago, GA_Dave said:

According to Harvey's book, there were 3,849 CF chassis built, but he doesn't state how many were all Mack and how many were completed by another builder.  The same Model designation format was used for the CF as was for the R model.  There were two series for the CF, based on frame size, the 600 and the 700.  Most were CF-600's, with only 112 being CF-700's.

 

Mack's MB/MC/MR series tilt cabs were much less popular for the Fire Service, with only 1075 total units built.  The MB was introduced as a commercial chassis in 1963 and the Fire Service version did not arrive until 1972.  From 1972 through 1978, only 319 MB's were built.  The vast majority of MB's were completed by other builders, primarily Howe Fire Apparatus.  The MC/MR replaced the MB in 1978, with 756 MC custom fire chassis being built through 1990.  The MR was never built as a custom fire chassis, but was often used by other builders.  Again, the same format was used for model designations.

Thanks - that's great info to see!

6 hours ago, GA_Dave said:

To further clarify the info from Bulldogboy, I have gathered more info from one of Harvey Eckart's books on Mack fire apparatus.  Mack built 381 R Model chassis specifically for the Fire Service, the last of which was in 1990.  This number includes those completed by Mack Trucks and those completed by other manufacturers.  Those completed by Mack will have a model number of R6??F- (the ?? indicates which Mack motor was used - 08, 11, 12, 85, 86, 88, or 90), followed by the 4-digit production number.  Those completed by another builder would have a model number of R6??FC-, followed by the 4-digit number.  If there is no "F" or "FC" in the model number, it is simply a Mack commercial chassis that was built into a fire apparatus by some other manufacturer.  In addition, there were 23 Model R487F or R487FC fire chassis (Scania Diesel) built, beginning in 1972.  When production of the R Model ended, over 210,000 had been built, with a mere 381 groomed for the Fire Service.

Thanks for the additional info!  I believe ALF used a similar suffix in their model number to indicate when an outside company built a piece of apparatus on an ALF chassis, so the FC designation makes sense.  it is a bit surprising to see that only 381 Rs were specific for fire, but the CF series was pretty popular and widely respected, so I would have figured there were more of those made (were there?).  I have to admit that in perusing this thread, I've been surprised at how many of the M series seemingly were used for fire apparatus.  Maybe there just weren't too many of them in Northeast, but I can't recall ever seeing one in service up in this area.....

18 hours ago, bulldogboy said:

These are two brochures that I have on Mack fire chassis and the "R" model pumper. The chassis brochure covers the "MS", "MC", "R", and "CF" chassis that were available to other fire truck

manufacturers. To quote the brochure, "Mack fire chassis are available as custom-built or commercial. Each and every model has been thoroughly engineered to meet the stringent specifications

of the fire service. What's important to note is that Mack chassis are manufactured to all NFPA requirements as standard, built in features." Also, "Look for the letters "FC" after the model number

in your truck as your assurance of a Mack fire chassis". Hope that this helps.

                     bulldogboy

Interesting - thanks!

Really?!?  That much?   Well, it certainly IS a beauty.  Would love to have one of those in any condition - it's a work of art, running or not....

23 hours ago, Patdbossct said:

Yes it runs and drives perfectly everything in the drive train was done over!

Perfect!!

Hate to think what that set of rubber cost......

On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 0:24 PM, GA_Dave said:

Mack Trucks groomed chassis for the Fire Service until 1991, but the Superliner was never one of them.  Those in the Fire Service are simply commercial chassis adapted by whichever company completed the apparatus.

I know that they made the B85/95 fire models specific to fire service (red steering wheels and dash, etc.), but did they do the same with the R models, or during that era were they pushing the CF600s as the "specialized" firefighting model, and not spec'ing the Rs the same way they did the Bs for fire service?  Was there an R "fire service" version like there was the B85/95 for that series?

Nice!  Is it running/moving?

As best I can piece together from on-line, Turn of River FD in Stamford, CT still owns this 1988 tanker and runs it as Tanker #68 out of their Station 1, or at least that was the case in 2015.

Things have been a bit messy in Turn of River with Stamford trying to consolidate all fire departments, and TOR fighting it in court, but in 2014, an agreement was inked that let TOR maintain all stations and equipment, and I can't find anything newer that contradicts that.  Unfortunately, it appears that their website hasn't been updated in 7-8 years, but there are some pics posted on line last year by some fire buffs, as well as on the TOR Facebook page that seem to clearly imply that it's still in their possession and being used.

As to it being a fire version, since it was a marriage of a chassis and Maxim tank, and this was toward the very end of Mack making its own apparatus, I would guess that this might have been a standard cab/chassis that was shipped to Maxim to have the tank mounted.  It does have a pump though, so it would be interesting to see if Mack mounted the pump, or if that was also done by Maxim.  Since there's a huge Maxim logo on the hood, I'd put my money on all the fire gear/fabrication having been done at the Maxim factory, though.  And it does look like the pump housing is integrated into the tank body.  Interestingly, this was also just before Maxim shut down operations, so it looks like it was one of the last efforts from them....

It would be fun to get the original build sheets and see what Mack actually sold!

It is a nice looking truck, although, as a former driver, I'd have to say that for maximum visibility, a few more strobes would have been desirable at about headlight height, in combination with wig-wags, which we don't know if it has or not.  What they have (at least in this pic) is either very high and obscured by running lights, and very low, at the bottom of the bumper.  Just my picky observation as someone always worried about safety of crews and other drivers on the road.

Stamford isn't all that far from me - maybe on a nice Saturday suitable for a good long Jeep ride with the top down, I'll take a spin out and try to check it out.

Here are a couple vids of the truck from yesterday......

https://db.tt/OPnjAvUx

https://db.tt/ikcmMXN6

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 9:42 AM, fxfymn said:

Seems to me that Dennis has some responsibility in this. Can he secure a NY title in his name? Just my $.02 but it seems that a truck without a title is worth less than one that is titled.

It may come to that, but my experience with the RI DMV is it's just a matter of finding the right combination of people to get the job done.  They relented relatively easily with my dump truck, so I'll go to headquarters next week, and no doubt there will be at least ONE person there with some common sense that will close the loop on this.  Just have to find that person!

Dennis did send his mechanic on a 3.5 hour journey (each way) to do 8 hours of work at no charge, so I know that if it comes to it, he's stepped up to the plate once already, which is more than I'm sure a lot of other sellers would have done....

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 4:45 PM, Gmerrill0516 said:

Care to share a part number on that regulator?  Who had it might be of help as well.  I am fairly sure I need one too...she runs FAT.

It's a Holley 12-804.  The best prices are on-line, but my local Advanced Auto Parts had one in for me in a day for $40......

It's running great now.  I just brought it home from my neighbors last night, and will post a couple vids of it running as soon as they finish downloading to dropbox....

36 minutes ago, 66dc75 said:

I met an appraiser from Middleboro Ma last week. He does antique cars and trucks.

His name is Everett at Interstate Appraisal 508-947-5058

Westerly isn't that far from there hour and a half maybe.

Thanks - I sent a request with some pics to see if perhaps for this type of purpose he'd do an appraisal from pics/video.  Appreciate the tip....

Wow, there are some crazy nice trucks there!!

3 hours ago, j hancock said:

Easy solution, get an appraisal.  Ask around who might be a good one to work with.  I have worked with various appraisers over the years and depending on the situation, they have dialed in the price that I wanted for vehicles or real estate.  They won't make a $10,000 truck into a $1,000 truck but they usually will make it "lean" the way you want.  There aren't a lot of comps or comparisons for antique fire trucks so there will be LOTS of room for adjustments.

One appraiser, who has passed away, wrote a report on a stake body truck as a "steak" body truck.  The folks at the DMV didn't even get the joke.

Rhode Island wants you to play their game so stack the deck in your favor.

Jim - the appraisal is the easy part.  The big black hole is that RI DMV requirements to register a vehicle are that you need either a title or the last reg.  This has neither.  So I have to find someone in the DMV who knows how to handle this, despite the fact that my local branch didn't have any clue who that might be......  It's just a roll of the dice as to who you get on any given day.  I had the same issues with my dump truck, but that particular day, serendipity was with me as the tax assessor person my local guy called said to just use the bill of sale, and even though my title was one owner removed, at least it had one, so they were still scowling about that, but let it through.

15 hours ago, Maddog13407 said:

if you bought it from Dennis, I'm sure its a bit higher than book value..... they should be good with that

That's exactly what I tried, since I'm sure I paid a bit more than what a true "book value" would be, but they are insisting on an appraisal.

21 hours ago, fxfymn said:

And I was born and raised in MA; how's that for the pot calling the kettle black?

:-)

1 hour ago, fxfymn said:

I was wondering how a small state like RI supported all those crooked politicians that keep going to jail. Now I know. 

There is something deeply wrong with a policy that pre-supposes all citizens are liars and cheats; the law must be a mirror of those who wrote it.

Yup - not too far from the truth on either count.....

30 minutes ago, 1958 F.W.D. said:

Why the hell does the DMV want a value? They're not insuring it.....I'd tell them to go pound sand. 

Because they think everyone's trying to rip them off, and they want to take you for as much as possible.  So a few years back they stopped using the value on the bill of sale, and they now use the top book value of the vehicle, regardless of vehicle condition.  So if you buy a 5 year old car that was $50,000 new, but was never maintained, has a blown engine, and no longer runs, you still get charged tax on book value of that vehicle in "excellent" condition, even if it's a used-up piece of crap that you have to have towed home.  Of course you can challenge it, but the time and expense to do so becomes prohibitive for most people. 

Since they can't find a "book value" on a '57 B85, it's now my responsibility to get an appraisal from a licensed vehicle appraiser.  And, of course, since I can't register it, it has to be from one that either does house calls or will do it from pics.  They don't care that I bought it from the person that probably sells more of these vehicles than anyone else in the country, and certainly knows their value.  Besides, these are people that deal in vehicle values all day.  Anyone over 12 years old knows that unless it's a museum piece, what I paid for the truck is just about fair market value for this type of vehicle, if not a little higher.

It's very discouraging.....

Well, finally got the fuel pressure regulator, and all the right accessories, as well as a bit of time to get it all together.  The end result is that as of about 10 minutes ago, she's running beautifully.  Idles great, no more burning rich, no smoke, no roughness or coughing.  So it looks like the problem has been found and solved.  I had to get it back in my friends barn, as he was headed out, but I'll post a quick video of it running later this week or this weekend when I get it back home and in my own garage.

Now.... if I could just convince the DMV to let me register it.  That's a battle for later this week.  They want me to get it appraised, as it doesn't show up on any of their "special vehicle" book value lists, but more worrisome, they are not happy about the fact that as an old NY municipal vehicle, it has no registration or title history.  So they, of course, think that I apparently am running a chop shop for "hot" 1/2-million dollar antique fire trucks, and that I've swiped this from some swanky showroom somewhere, and it MUST be stolen if it has no paper trail.  Even though the broker gave me a notarized NY document that explains all this.  As usual no common sense in government, and now I have to take more time off work to go to the DMV mother ship and argue my case to someone - they couldn't even tell me who....  Can't wait.