sodly

Thanks for the help guys. It would be interesting to compare all the specs on a typical 70s/80s Mack frame with their competitors. I've just always found it curious that most trucks back then had straight-rails from end to end whereas Macks tended to have all kinds of odd profiles and changing depths. I always wondered why they looked so unconventional compared to most of the competition. The MH/Superliner frame, in particular, is about the busiest-profile frame rail I think I've ever seen!

As usual, I come here seeking an education. Maybe someone can explain something I've never quite understood about Mack trucks. When you think of a tough ol' truck, you think of a Mack R model. At least I do. But I've never understood why the R model frame rails, along side the engine, seem so thin (in profile) compared to most other trucks. When you tip the hood of an R it just doesn't look very substantial up front, frame-wise, compared to say a Peterbilt/KW with their tall, straight frame rails from one end of the truck to the other. Is there just not that much force exerted on the front end of a truck's frame, or what? What do you suppose was the reasoning for not using a straight rail like other manufacturers? Could you get a 20,000 lb front end with those thin frame rails on an R? Or would that necessitate an RD? Does the RD have a more substantial front frame? Or are Mack frames made from a stronger materials and, therefore, don't need to be as tall in profile? I used to have the same thoughts about the early Superliner/Cruiseliner front frames. They tapered down to nearly nothing at the front (I realize to accommodate larger radiators). I found it surprising when the Superliner II came along with its much more substantial (taller) front frame. The total opposite extreme from before! Was this just due to the higher HP engines in the Superliner II and the torque they produced? Or was it because the steering gear was now frame-mounted whereas the old Superliners were axle-mounted? I guess I've just always wondered why Mack frames just generally don't look as substantial as most of their competitors. I realize the heavier models like mixers and dumps have beefier frames but I'm talking primarily about highway trucks here. Any thoughts on this? Please drop some knowledge on me. Thanks!

Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum before but I wasn't finding a lot when I searched. After many years of watching from afar, I'm hoping to make a first-time trip to the ATCA national show at Macungie this summer. Sort of a bucket list trip, you might say. I've been to several ATHS national conventions over the years (since they rotate locations) but never to Macungie (although back in 1994 I bought an ATCA VHS tape of that years show!). I've been a old truck fan since I was a teen and Mack has always been a favorite make. I figured I should probably try to make it to the Macungie show at least once in my life, eh? I've always wanted to see the Mack museum and plant, too. I guess I've wanted an old Mack about as long as I can remember and I'm finally semi-actively looking for a Superliner "hobby truck" so I thought the time was right to go check out the Macungie phenomenon. It would be fun to see some nice old Macks... maybe even some for sale... wink, wink! But having never been to PA... or even to that part of the country... I was hoping for some pointers. I know some of you have been through this rodeo before, flying in for the show. So here are some of my newbie questions. I presume it's cheapest to fly into Philadelphia, correct? Or is there an airport I'm overlooking that's in the vicinity but still reasonable to fly into? How much time should I budget? Sounds like the big day at the show is Saturday but I suspect I'll want to go Friday, too. Does anything happen on Sunday? When do most of the trucks roll in/out? It would be fun to catch them in action. Can I do the museum before the show, like on Wednesday or Thursday? Or will it be chaos there since it's show week? How much time should I budget for the museum? Can you spend time looking through archival materials there? Or is it mostly just looking at the facility and the few trucks on display? How about the Allentown plant? Will it be open for tours in advance of the show on Wed or Thurs? Or only during the show? Do I understand correctly that the Allentown plant houses the museum as well? Is there transportation from Macungie Park to the museum/plant for touring? Would any great truck collections like Gary Mahan's happen to be open to visit in the days before the show? Anything else I should make sure not to miss while I'm out there? I presume the best way to get around would be a rental car, correct? Just wondering about the possibility of my wife dropping me at Macungie and then her taking the car back to Philly to play around while I'm at the show. What do other wives do while you guys are at the show from out of town? Not sure she could take a whole day of trucks, lol. Any cool "wife" activities in the area would be most welcome. Any notable shopping? I know we both want to see the Mutter Museum! Thanks for all your input! Looking forward to it (hopefully)!

Thanks for the explanations. This is exactly as I suspected the camelback worked but never knew for sure. Seems those rubber blocks must take quite a beating during extreme articulation situations. There would appear to be a tremendous amount of stress on the far ends of the springs where the pack is only one or two leafs thick. Those couple of leafs have to take all that twisting motion. Yet, you always hear people say that a camelback is one of the toughest suspensions out there, right along side the Hendrickson walking beam, and offers unparalleled off-road traction. I've also seen in old Mack brochures how the camelback suspension "steers around corners" due to the spring packs lengthening and shortening on either side of the truck in a turn. Can anyone elaborate on their experience with that? I would think it must be quite subtle otherwise it would be an odd sensation to feel the tandems steering from the rear, even if only slightly.

When the suspension flexes like that do the main spring packs stay basically parallel with the sides of the frame? Or do the springs themselves twist with the axles? I've never seen this clearly.

I was searching the web for photos or video demonstrating the articulation of Mack's famous camelback suspension. Surprisingly, I couldn't find much of anything. I was surprised. The only thing I can find is the old photo/illustration of the bogie by itself from old brochures. No photos/videos of actual trucks in extreme articulation conditions. Anybody got anything?

Interesting link, Swishy. I'll be darned if I can figure out how it works, though! Something must be happenin' inside those big boxes on each side. Kinda mysterious to me like a KW torsion bar suspension.

Pretty sure it's not Hendrickson. The insignia appears to have a "W" in it. I'm not familiar with Mack ride-well but whatever Swishy posted appears to be the same suspension. Can anyone clue me in?

Whoa! You just spun my head there. How do all these different wheel sizes interchange?!?!

Can anyone ID this suspension I saw on an old, abandoned R model? Never seen one of these.

I called Mr. Lukens' number and his wife answered. She said he gave up on the Superliner registry several years ago. He sold his truck and is now into trains. She doesn't think the information he collected was passed on to anyone and nobody took over the registry.

Sure looks to me like your 11.00r24s are bigger and taller than your run of the mill 11.00r24.5s. Is that correct? Smaller wheel but taller tire?

Better pics would be great! Maybe with a flash, lol. Just kidding. Thanks.

Would love to see some photos of truck with these various sizes mounted. I need the education!

Thanks! The pics are most helpful. So it seems a big, obvious visual clue is vinyl vs. cloth seats. That tells you either Level 1 or 2 (vinyl) and Level 3 or 4 (cloth) with just a glance. How does a Level 4 headliner differ from the lower levels? Do they even have a headliner? And what's on the back panel of the lower level trucks? Anything?

Thanks for the correction on the sizes. I'm just gleaning all this stuff second hand from photos like the one I posted. It can be hard to make out tire sizes in photos, of course. Yup, it appears they are 12.00R24s... not 24.5s. Whatever they are they look awfully good. I like 'em on Bs, Rs and RWs. Course, they'd probably look good on about anything. So you're saying that you could've theoretically ordered that big rubber on a truck that didn't necessarily need it? Just for looks? If that's the case, what would be required to fit wheels and tires like that to an ordinary truck? Just curious.

I really like the look of trucks with tall 12 x 24.5 rubber. How heavily spec'd of a truck did it take to option the larger tires and wheels? Were they available on lower GVWR trucks too? For example, could you spec 12.00 rubber on a R or RW with a lowly 38k or 44k rear end? Or is that too light to justify the bigger tires and wheels? Did they have to make any special accommodations to the truck to fit them? Do they use larger spring blocks under the front springs? Or is it just the larger wheels that give those trucks a noticeably taller stance? I've always been curious. Thanks!

Thanks for the link. I have seen that brochure. But it seems that there's not a lot of difference between levels 2, 3 and 4. Perhaps the headliner and carpeting? Different seats? Is there any easy way to spot a level 2,3 or 4 from a glance? Also, it seems there was grey, black and blue! Guess I always just assumed the black and grey were the same color. And I thought they dropped blue after the Superliner II came out. Does anyone have a Super 2 with a blue interior? Never seen one. Thanks guys!

Could anyone explain... or better yet, show me... the difference between level 1, 2, 3 and 4 in a late model R or Superliner? These interiors only came in dark grey in the later years, correct? When did they go to grey-only? How does one differentiate between a level 2 and 3? Or 3 and 4? Pics would be great. Thanks!

$100 grand?!!? Wow. Hard to believe. Does anyone know where it ended up? If it's in PA surely someone here must know of it, lol. I recall seeing a similar DW Ford Superliner that was blue. Here's a photo of a model of it I found online. Does anyone know of the real thing? Sounds like ol' DW had a few.

Hate to rag on anyone else's ride but I don't get the "large car" look on this truck. Maybe it's just the gaudy deck plate down the sides of the frame but to me that much wheelbase on a COE looks obviously "added-on-after-the-fact" and must be utterly impractical. The whole reason for the COEs, after all, was to reduce wheelbase. It seems oxymoronic to stretch one that far out... unless you're hauling looooong steel beams or something that requires the extreme length. It's kinda odd not to have a visor with that much wheelbase, too. It's sort of a shame, if you ask me. I bet that was a neat truck in apparently great original condition before it was... ahem... improved. You don't see many nice, Western Cruiseliners around anymore.

Interesting stuff, guys. Never even thought about the cab being slightly crooked. And never knew there were adjustments to be made at the front end up by the bumper. Good info. Thanks!

A trivial question but I've noticed that on some Superliners that the hoods sit slightly crooked. That is, the gap between the lower edge of the grille/fenders isn't even across the top of the bumper. It appears that the hood is slightly twisted from the front view. Does anyone know why this happens? Is it from constant torque in one direction over the years on the hood? Can it be adjusted out? Is it fixable? Or does this indicate a previously-wrecked truck or something? Just curious. Thanks!

Another dumb question. How does one add photos/descriptions to the "Vehicles" tab in your profile? When I click on "Edit profile" I don't see any options for the vehicles section. I did manage to upload some photos/descriptions to the "Albums" tab. However I have a gallery there that is blank and I can't seem to delete it. How do you delete an Album? I would like to move the photos/descriptions in my Albums tab to my Vehicles tab. Sorry... I don't have these problems on other forums. But this one is different than any other I've used. I must admit it's not the most intuitive forum software I've ever used.

This is probably a dumb question but.... Every time I open a thread on this forum I get a little icon in the lower right corner of my screen that says "Quote 2 posts". I can't seem to get rid of it. And if I try to quote a post it brings up these 2 old quoted posts from way back when. There are also some blue buttons overlaying the "quote 2 posts" button. Not sure what these are either. Can anyone help explain what I'm doing wrong? Thanks!