sdthoren

Anybody up for a BMT Wiki topic to post these?

I believe i'll go ahead and pull the head, maybe i can just hone her out. Who knows, I wonder what rings and sleeves would be for this thing? Wouldn't bother me about it using a little oil, just not wanting to damage it really bad or wors than what it is. They said it run fine, but hasn't been run in 6 or 7 years. I'll go ahead and start tearing down tomorrow evening, we're takin the boys to see santa claus so i'll be busy. Just hoping the head bolts wont break off, and i can't find a tag on the motor. How do you run the numbers thats on the block? how would you find info i mean?

Joe,

You aren't out much trying to pull injectors and giving her a liberal dosing of PB or ATF over a week or two. My 4-71 has evidence of a rather large pipe wrench on the crankshaft snout/harmonic balancer (too dark to look tonight). Ease in to it, think about how far you are going when you start turning bolts, and let your knowledge guide you rather than emotion (sounds like I've been there, huh?)! Might pull the oil pan drain plug for a couple seconds & see what comes out (I know I'm crossing my fingers for oil)...

Best of luck, it will turn out.

Scott

Rob and Thermodyne,

Both very good points made. My impression so far has been along with Rob's statements; 100% of the air is filtered (to a point/size). But then again, Thermodyne makes a good point with longevity with an oil bath. I have seen too many pieces of new equipment, technology, CAD designing down to the gnat's a$$, that it just can't hold a candle to the old stuff. Guess that is why we are all here with our passion for Mack trucks.

But with everything else the same, as Rob says, "Of course I'm assuming good maintenance practices" is the key to long life of equipment and early detection of problems.

Scott

Hi Scott. Both of my 4-71 series powered sets have SAE#1 flywheel housings attached to them. They also do not use a standard flywheel or flexplate although an automotive flywheel could readily be swapped over.

The 6-71, and 6V-71 series engines also use SAE#1 flywheel housings. All of the larger "V" series engines use an SAE#00 housing in both the 71, and 92 series. I don't maintain anything newer than the 92's. I'm speaking solely of the Detroit powered sets there. All use an industrial flywheel of appropriate size for their respective housing(s), and are direct coupled to their alternators/generators.

Most any transmission available in a medium duty chassis would work for you but I would stay with at least a five speed due to gear spread. The 4-71's are a fine engine but make an awful lot of noise for the power delivered without a very good silenced air cleaner.

Rob

Rob,

Thanks for the information on flywheels and bellhousings - good stuff to know. The genset I have has an oil bath filter on the intake, but not much of a muffler on the exhaust. With all this, it is loud, but I'm thinking with a decent muffler it would be toned down to a decent level.

Has anybody looked at efficiencies of an oil bath vs. a paper media intake filter? How about engine longevity between the two? I have my impressions, but want to see what other people think.

Thanks,

Scott

Where are you located? Try trucktrader.com to get some ideas of pricing, etc. What is your price range? You will be better off financially to put your capital outlay into the initial purchase rather than buy a fixer that takes a substantial amount of time to get rolling and cost at least twice what you think it will to get it running & reliable!

Good luck in your search.

Scott

P.S. Post some pictures of your EH, join the EH vin list posting, and park it the "garage"!

Couple of nice looking rides you have there, Jim.

You'll have to talk with Larry (aka Freightrain) as he pulls his racecar & trailer with a B61.

Welcome to the board, I'm sure you will find many knowledgeable and helpful people that can answer almost any question.

Scott

Dang it guys,

You got the juices flowing, I started looking around for a donor crewcab pickup to put my 4-71 generator set engine into!!!

Thermodyne B63, do you have torque numbers for each of the engines (I would suppose they would vary widely based on injectors and vintage)?

Rob, as the resident board generator expert, not sure what style of flywheel would be on a getset...much less if it is a standard bellhousing (would assume so, but you never know).

Any ideas on transmissions that would handle horsepower & torque (mine is a 1940's non-turbo version), number of gears/speeds needed to avoid huge rpm changes per shift, and if an Allison AT540 or MT653(?) would be a good idea?

Thanks,

Scott

.. just wondering how to tell what the final drive gearing would be and about what speed it should have at engine gov, 2100...or cruising ,,round here thats 60mph. with 1100x20 tires. thankx guys I know someone will be able to help me out or where to look.

thanks

Robert.

Robert,

I'll see if I can put my excel spreadsheet into words...

If you want to get speed in miles per hour, MPH;

1. start with this: rpm (revs per minute) * 60 (minutes per hour) gives engine revolutions per hour

2. then this: tire diameter (inches) *3.14159 => this gives the tire circumference

3. divide the tire circumference by: 12 (inches per foot) * 5280 (feet per mile) => gives the tire circumference in miles instead of inches!

4. now multiply the transmission ratio by the differential ratio (engine rev / driveline rev * driveline rev / wheel rev)

multiply items 1 and 2 together, then divide by items 3 & 4;

For your truck, this becomes: MPH=(2100rpm*60)*(43.1*3.14159) / (12*5280*5.77*0.85) = 55mph.

Not your 60mph quite cruising speed, but pretty respectable. I know I don't want to hit 70mph in my old dumptruck!

Just for grins, I looked at gearing and torque. Assuming an ENDT673 puts out 600 ft-lbs, your low end gearing of 18.96, your tire size (I assumed 43.1"), and good traction, you can put 6334 pounds of force to the ground! That's almost 800 pounds of force per tire from 1422ft-lbs of torque applied to each tire! OK, enough is enough, the geek engineer in me is starting to come out!

Hope you have fun with your truck!

Scott

I'm wondering if anyone has a fairly accurate estimate of what an empty B61LST would weigh? The tractor is a single frame, camelback tandem, aluminum tank, no front brakes. It's pretty light as far as a tractor goes, but I need to get a weight to find how heavy of a trailer I need to move it. The obvious solution would be to go to the scale, but that may prove to be difficult for me, given the truck's current condition. Thanks.

Squid,

I have a single axle dump truck with a Thermodyne that weighs 14,200#. These trucks are made heavy duty, and they are heavy, even if they are a "light" model with lots of aluminum. I would say you are safe assuming 12,000 to 14,000 pounds for a tandem tractor.

Scott

Justin,

I was researching starters/alternators & thought of your post. Here's a couple of websites that may be of general help and good reference:

http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_training/training_0.php - Prestolite (Leece Neville) electrical manual

http://www.hss.energy.gov/NuclearSafety/te...d/standard.html - There are a bunch of manuals here. Some of the electrical fundamental handbooks deal with DC circuits, but mainly AC circuits.

Hope this helps,

Scott

The rad. you have there is what i was calling a wide rad. the average B61 rad. was smaller than that. but that will work on a B61 small rad if you have fender and head light panels. Has the air cleaner been taken of of that truck?

Glenn,

Those pictures are of the B615 I saw on eBay. It looks like the air cleaner has been removed; I can see a little bit of the cowl fitting...

My B613 has the tin cover over the radiator.

Fifth wheel, that's a good catch, I had never paid attention to cab height. I guess with the dropped floor on the B70 series cabs, you would need to raise it up. So the fender extensions do provide a vertical adjustment for the rear bolt pattern of the fenders. Now I gotta go look!

Scott

Scott does your B613 have the wide rad? Some B61 had the wide or big rad. like the B75 or B73. I remember a B615 that had the V8 and wide rad. I aways wanted one of them so i could put a cummins in it and drop the floor pan down on the drivers side.

Hi Glenn,

My B613 has the standard radiator, not the wide one like my B70's. Now that you mention it, it seems HarryB has a B615 and the photos he sent shows the wide radiator. Harry indicates that most of the B615's were sent to Australia, but I did see one on eBay that the guy thought it had a detroit in it (it may have been a V8 Mack). I'll attach a couple of photos of the eBay truck, but they aren't the greatest for size/resolution.

Cayoterun,

The B73, B75 & B77 series trucks have a longer hood and include fender extensions to allow installation of a cummins inline 6 engine, which is several inches longer than a 673. The hood will be too long and have a cut out for the air intake. The B61 air intake enters the front portion of the cab before entering the engine compartment. The air intake for the engine on a B7x series enters directly into the engine comparment. All that being said, if you have a complete B61 (with damaged fenders, radiator, etc), the radiator, headlight panels and fenders from a B7x series should bolt directly onto your B61. I haven't measured the bolt spacing at the bottom of a B61 radiator vs. a B7x series, but they look pretty close. As mentioned previously, you would need the B61 hood. I haven't verified the fender bolt pattern either, but would be very surprised if there was a difference.

I'm assuming you have everything for the B61 and have access to a B75 front clip. The B75 cab mounts to the frame a little farther back, the rear spring hangers for the front axle are different (on a B61 the front cab mounts are part of the hanger, where on a a B75 they are separate; at least on mine), and the access panels between the fender and hood are different (probably need to use the B61's).

Let me or HarryB if you have questions - I've got a B613, and several B7x series trucks; Harry B is modifying a B6x series to fit a large bore inline 6. We've been working the issue from a different angle, but could probably help you out if you decide to jump in!

Scott

Paul,

I was able to find a couple of wheel studs for my '58 B613 at NAPA. They were a special order, but just measure one up with a caliper so you have accurate numbers for length, etc. Then take one in when you go. They should have a set of books available to look at & compare with your sample. I will see if I still have the receipt for mine when I get back in the shop tomorrow & get you the part numbers.

Scott

If you can, get your CDL.

Check with your local tech school or community collage and see if they offer a CDL course, if they do chances are you might be able to get a grant from your state so it will not cost much and will be worth the time and any money you spend.

My state paid (GA) paid for everything except the DOT physical and the exam/endorsement fees.

David

I would recommend getting your CDL as well. Part of the requirements include a pre-trip inspection that really make you understand what your truck is doing and if there are things that can make driving more dangerous . It will likely make you a better driver, and you will definately notice bad driving habits in others (try not to mention them to your significant other while they are driving!!). It isn't cheap, but the benefits outweigh the costs - especially if it keeps you out of an accident as you get used to scanning 14 seconds in front of your vehicle.

I'm glad I got mine.

Scott

Does anybody know of (or operating) a heavy haul service in Oregon/Washington area? I have been looking at a 1965 B-833SX that is begging to come home with me! The truck is located in western Oregon, need transport to eastern Washington. Size is a little awkward due to a lattice boom crane and weight is heavy (~38,000 !!).

Thanks,

Scott

Hi Packer,

Yep, the boom is back in Wyoming. The troublesome part of that crystal ball is that it never forecasts when you might get caught with a $150k house that sells for $75k the week after the boom busts! Know the ATHS rep well, played football with his boys & played in his winch trucks on the weekends. Bob's a great guy. Thanks for taking a look, it will be interesting to see what kind of "other" repairs may have been made!

Scott

Hi Packer,

Any idea of the asking price? I'm going to be back down the old stomping grounds later this spring (Shoshoni, just don't blink when you are driving through!!). That bumper guard sure brings back some memories of the way trucks were set up 30 years ago when oil was booming in Wyoming...

Scott

Paul,

This is a great idea - even though I can't take advantage of your offer, I appreciate what you are doing!

Our hobby is expensive enough and without real potential of financial payback. What you are doing is promoting the restoration of old trucks and should be applauded (and here is mine ).

Thanks again for what you are doing, keep up the good work, and may the road always rise up to greet you!

Scott

Long live the !

Kevin,

Do you have an idea of who might have sending units for this indication? There was a drilled hole in the oil pan for level indication, but all that is left is a sealed cover. Same situation for the radiator. I did an internet search for Water-Larm, but didn't come up with anything (of value). It would appear that the sensors had a normally open contact that would close upon warning condition and 12V dc would light up the bulb (no other electronics, etc found). Since the sending units aren't on the engine anymore, I'm not sure my assumptions on their operation are correct. Does anybody know what should be there?

Thanks,

Scott

Hi guys (and gals)!

On my '64 B73S with a Cummins NH-250, there are a set of idiot lights on the instrument panel made by Water-Larm out of Portland, Oregon. Has anybody ever seen these before?

There is an oil level light and a "water level-aerated coolant" light. It looks like the sending units were removed from the engine, but I'm curious about the company and/or usefulness of the indication. It would seem they either didn't work so well or caused enough problems that a previous owner removed the sending units.

I am in the tear-down process on this truck and am wondering if I should try to resurrect the system or just run with an original style instrument panel?

Thanks,

Scott

Don't forget the B Model Registery at oldmacksrus.com. Get your information sent in so I can get yours in the registery.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom,

Got my '58 in a while back, just finished with the '62 & '64.

Thanks!

Scott

Guys,

Thanks for the leads and information. My wife is gonna be rolling her eyes!

I was wondering about the front axle numbers; the P1 & P2 designations at the end seemed common with the numbers I saw on the rear ends.

I saw there is a turbo on eBay; does anybody know of a good source for rebuilding or rebuilt Schwitzer turbos for ENDT673's? What is a going rate?

Thanks again,

Scott

Found a couple of B-70 series trucks in my travels lately, just couldn't pass them up for the price.

The first truck is a 1964 B-73S, quadraplex, SWD57/CRD93 rears and a cummins NH250 (no turbo) with jakes. The cummins is making some noise, not sure if it is rods, pistons or what. It does have steady blowby. It used to have a crane or boom on it with a flatbed. The front axle looks to be a transplant, the numbers were in the right spot for a Mack, but they didn't make any sense. Here's a couple of the numbers: 3QHF442-P2, 3QH443-P1; normally they have an "FA" in the model number, right?

The second truck is a 1962 B753S. It was near the Oregon coast, does have a bit of rust, and currently has a folding stiffleg boom on it with 2 winches. It also has a quadraplex and an ENDT673 with jakes! The turbo is bad though. Somebody was an aspiring welder and layed more rod on this truck (frame, cab, suspension brackets, etc), that it just makes you cringe...I guess when the job won't wait, you have to get 'er done!

I am debating using one truck for parts in order to make a heavy lowboy hauler with a winch (or two) on the tractor and kozad style ramps. The '64 has an excellent cab, just a few dings, and fenders and hood that could use work. I'm not a tachograph fan (which the '64 has for a speedo and tach), but the '62 has a standard gauge panel, better fenders and hood, and two winches for the boom. All in all, the good parts on one complement that bad parts on another.

I guess as I write this, I am coming to the conclusion to use the blue '62 as a donor truck for the '64...unless anybody knows where to get sheetmetal at a decent price and knows of an NH-250 needing a home in WA or OR. I still haven't decided, but wanted to let you guys see what I picked up, see if you have any leads for tin/motors, and get your thoughts.

Thanks, Scott

Scott,

I am not sure who you are or who you think you are, but you have just bashed the members of the most important organization in the United States and the world dedicated to perserving the history of trucks and trucking.

Terry,

I am also an ATHS member, have been for about 5 years. Those sucker punches about things important to you hurt a little bit, don't they?

When somebody responds to a post looking for old Macks & says that the best thing you can do is shred/crush them, I didn't see the humor.

Scott