Jamaican Bulldog

19 hours ago, david wild said:

Mack for years was ahead of everyone in truck engineering, air to air, air ride cabs, and drive trains

Yes and I thought the 70s would have been a boom time for Mack especially with their technology hat allowed greater fuel efficiency.

12 hours ago, Hayseed said:

RUST....

They originally were built for a Sand mining/Quarrying Company. I think some also went to a Salt Mine..

Oh, makes sense. That would have been an advantage too for us too in the Caribbean islands with all the salt air.

14 hours ago, fxfymn said:

The ironic thing is that all of the major builders have followed the Mack model by becoming vertically integrated with their own proprietary power trains.

The fact that Mack had their own power train manufacturing is probably the thing that saved the brand from passing on to posterity. Volvo needed and wanted that to do what every other builder has since done.

Yes, that is so true especially since modern components need to be able to 'electronically talk' with each other. It is not  easy to mix and match components like used to be. 

1 hour ago, Hayseed said:

Here in Australia ,We also had a Full Fibreglass Cab as An option in the early 70's.

pretty sure the '74 Oil Crisis made the resin Too expensive for the cab to be affordable.

I think there was only 35-50 Made.. BISTBC

 

 

Wow! What was the reasoning for the fiberglass R model cab? Weight?

13 hours ago, fxfymn said:

This is my take on it.

Mack like many other old line manufacturing firms started having financial difficulties in the 1970's because of factors that were largely out of their control. The oil crisis stopped a lot of capital investment so truck sales slowed while at the same time massive inflation took hold along with very high interest rates. These factors made it tough for companies like Mack that used a business model of letting customers pay a relatively small down payment while the company carried the cost of building the truck.

The old model worked fine when the cost of borrowing money was stable and manufacturing costs could be reasonably forecast. When interest rates approached 20% and inflation ran to 10% companies could not raise prices fast enough to compensate, nor afford to borrow money to ride out the storm. My guess is that Paccar had enough money in the bank to ride it out while almost every other builder went out of business or was bought out by a competitor. 

This makes sense, but I also wonder too that while Mack built a great reputation of quality by designing and building their own truck and components, it may also have sapped capital and spread themselves thin. Most heavy truck makers designed and built the  cab and chassis but relied on suppliers for the powertrain components.

I have read on here under numerous  topics where people mention Mack having serious financial hardships during different periods such as the 60s and onwards.

However, with such high reputation for high quality, why did mack struggle financially during a period where their innovative products were so well regarded? Where they considerable more expensive than competitors? Did they miss certain market opportunities or failed in some ways to keep up in certain aspects of the market?

Years ago an old timer told me that Mack trucks were too good for their own good. Meaning than the trucks and the parts lasted so long people didn't replace them too often. I remember a factory rep telling me that they were built to last 30 yrs. Not sure if that had anything to do with the topic.

I am actually surprised that Mack didn't have a stronger foothold in more international markets like some of the European competitors did. Especially after their reputation after the 2 World Wars, and having very efficient engines during the oil crisis.

2 hours ago, macks in nigeria said:

For the major Truck manufacturers that are in joint ventures with the global heavyweights like Iveco,Mercedes benz and Ford that could be said for them but the bulk of the market for now is held by the Local Chinese brands like Howo,Shacman,Dongfeng and any name they choose to call it they still practice Relevant and basic copy technology.Infact there is a blasphemous joke about a Chinese artisan if he knew Jesus Christ, he replied no but promptly added if you show me I can copy it.

The Chinese over the years have shown little regard for intellectual property rights and have shamelessly and sometimes comically copied the designs of reputable brands. Not sure if this policy is still in effect, but many if not all foreign competitors can't produce products in China unless the facility is a joint venture with at least 51% Chinese ownership.

On 11/16/2017 at 4:38 AM, kscarbel2 said:

We never thought of the F as old, and the WS as new. Rather, the F was "East Coast" and the WS was "West Coast", two very different trucks for different markets.

The F certainly was born years before the WL/WS, but the steel dashboard F-600 of 1962 was a very different truck from the F-700 "Interstater" of 1980. Continually improved to keep it competitive, it had a completely new interior, raised cab, deeper frame and more.

The MH Ultra-Liner was the convergence, a truck adaptable to both the east and west coast operators.

If I wanted to make money like Overnite, UPS and Chemical Leamon, I'd buy a Mack naturally, and choose F-models over the problem-ridden Cruise-Liner. We actually sold Overnite a handful of Cruise-Liners (54-inch day cab 6x4s), but they were not pleased.

I really liked the CL-72/721 Mack "Dynamax" wet clutch (4-plate, push-type, DEXRON fluid) spec'd by UPS. Produced for us by Rockford Clutch Corp., they almost lasted forever. That was an option to all customers too.

I learn something everyday on this site. I didn't realize there was such overlap of production of the mack COE models. I always thought the Cruiseliner replaced the F model then the (still modern looking and beautiful) MH replaced that one. Was the WL/WS the Cruiseliner?

I actually think older G model actually looked more modern than the F and Cruiseliner.

Also I used to think the F model got it's styling cues from the R model but it seems it was the other way around as the R came out after the F.

1 hour ago, Mack Technician said:

The instructor says this engine is likely the last step of diesel power we will see.  

 

To paraphrase " the demise of the internal combustion engine is greatly exaggerated". Same thing happening in the car end and right truck end of the auto industry where I am. Constant advances in the good old internal composition tech will keep them viable foe many years to come. However there are so many interest groups often funded by tax payer money trying to undermine it to make alternatives  seem more viable future powertrain

What year and on  which model did the gold hood ornament start signifying that a Mack truck has a 'pure bred' powertrain components?

1 hour ago, kscarbel2 said:

he current AVL-designed 6.7 has delivered good service for most operators.

Who or what is AVL?

19 hours ago, mackdaddy said:

Mate, I am the only American with a right drive and I do a pretty good job with the left hand............ this Valueliner was a one owner of Glen Menzies from Wagga Wagga...........bought it new when he was 21 yrs old!!

 

Wow a Australian Mack int he U.S? Oh I would love to see that in person

On 11/16/2017 at 1:53 AM, Hayseed said:

later Models They put the "F" cab on a "R" model Chassis Hence the different Steering arrangement you noticed.. This is Why Most aussie F models have the "FR" model designation..

What chassis was the earlier F models put on?

On 3/29/2016 at 4:17 PM, Leonardo Favaro said:

Wow, thats really interesting to know, i'm from Brazil but Favaro family have italian descent, but originally in italy is writed Favero.

Welcome on board Leonardo. I have travelled to Brazil a few times and was fascinated with the trucks. I noticed that Scanias and Mercedes are well respected there. Lots of old ones still working. Only saw a few American heavies such as Internationals but many medium/heavy Brazilian Fords.

Regarding Scanias in the U.S. I still see a heavy Scania conventional dump truck still working in Mount Vernon NY. I wouldn't be surprised if it is owned by a Brazilians because Mount Vernon has a large Brazilian community, and as mentioned before Brazilian truckers have a lot of respect fro Scanias.

On 11/9/2017 at 12:51 AM, Lmackattack said:

 There were 2 different versions of 2 stick "5 speeds" The early version had Reverse and 1-5 on the main. the Hi / low was on the aux stick. this was a over drive transmission. The later and more popular was the 2 stick 6 speed direct. it had 1-5 on the main and Low/direct/Reverse on the aux (compound)stick.   both of these boxes had a married aux box bolted to them. 

Thanks for that explanation. I didn't know there where two types of the twin stick 5 speeds. I guess my uncle's 74 DM with a 237 and twin stick had the later version because he could shift through the gears in reverse.

On 11/2/2017 at 5:26 AM, terry said:

5 spd. main with a reverse, direct and low on the back box.     terry

Does that mean that the twin stick was actually a 5sp with an auxiliary gear box attached?

Were the twin stick 5sp that was common in DM models the same as the regular 5sp transmission but with a Hi and Lo? Those were indestructible.

I know the legendary 5sp Maxitorque transmission was used in the 237hp and higher output engines, but was it used in engines with more than 300hp such as the  V8 and 350 hp sixes?  Did the  multiple speed transmissions such the 9sp have the  same design concept as the 5sp with high torque rise engines? In other words did the 9sp in higher horsepower engines reduce the need t use 13 or more speed transmissions.

Inline sixes and V12 engines are often considered the most balanced configuration for engines to deliver smooth power. That is one reason why BMW kept inline sixes when others went to V designs. One of the reasons V designs for 6s replaced many of their inline predecessors  was because the V design allowed the engines to fit in more compact spaces. This  especially as many car and SUV platforms shifted from longitudinal  powertrain configuration ( engine mounted north to south with rear wheels as main driving wheels) to transverse set ups ( engine mounted east/west or vice versa or front wheel drive based).

The inlines are definitely easier to work on especially with so many accessories mounted on engines nowadays.

Yes interesting. Must have an interesting story behind it.

On 10/8/2017 at 11:45 PM, yarnall said:

My 1985 MH612 has 1,973,000 on the clock hauling horses for Ralph G Smith of West Chester.  I don't think it had too much done. Rom can fill in the details.  It did get a repaint after one of his brothers laid it over on a wet off ramp in Florida.  

Oh, I saw these at Macungie. I also have a video of a old Pete bring off loaded that the MH was hauling. 

I once met a guy who had a Superliner with over 4 million miles. Not sure when and how often he overhauled or replaced major components though.

I am planning to visit Australia within the next year during Australian football (AFL) season and was hoping I could coordinate the trip with attending a major Antique truck show.

I am also planning to visit the U.K and would also love to visit a similar show.

When and where are the major annual antique truck shows in these countries similar to our Macungie and ATHS shows in the U.S?

The town of Greenburgh NY still has some great running manual shift RM sanders and plows. They also sound great and driver that does my street prefers it over the newer trucks they have. I look forward to hearing them whenever we have snow because I know that its only a matter of time before they are all replaced.

When I worked in Greenwich in the early 2000s, two companies Deluca & Sons and Riccardi Bros had great looking Macks. I am not sure if they are around or still have Macks.