kt_Engineer

2 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

This development begs the question of what happened to the Wright Speed-powered Volvo-Mack LR refuse project?  Did Volvo decide to ignore it and run with their in-house tech? Ian Wright is sharp.

https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/45567-waste-concept-mack-tests-out-wrightspeed-electric-powertrain/

 

https://www.macktrucks.com/mack-news/2020/mack-trucks-demonstrates-mack-lr-electric-model-for-new-york-city-department-of-sanitation/

https://www.waste360.com/trucks/behind-wheel-look-macks-lr-electric-truck-dsny

Volvo is also partnering on LIGHTS (Low Impact Green Heavy Transportation Solutions) California initiative for Drayage and other applications

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/06/20200619-volvo.html

https://www.volvotrucks.us/news-and-stories/press-releases/2020/february/all-electric-vnr-models/

On 7/31/2020 at 2:37 PM, CrashTestDummy said:

That's another great chart - thank you!

Unfortunately I can't really share any other information (they've 'let people go' for this sort of thing in the past so I'm erring on the side of caution), but this is also very helpful.

Anything done outside the scope of normal application always voids Manufacturing warranty and OEM will not be liable for anything that could go wrong (on your "contraption").

If the carrier is being driven through some electric motor/engine with a reduction gear-box in between and another reduction boxes on each axle output end, the carriers can be expected to fail relatively quickly in 50-100 hr window depending on input torque/RPM. Depending on load applied either a gear tooth bending failure or gear surface fatigue failure can occur. Most possibly #2, #3 or differential bearings will go bad before gear failure. Changing out bearings @ 50hr interval can extend the carrier life.

CRD150-151 (Ratio 3.11 to 6.53); CRD180-181 (Ratio 3.79 to 7.08) and CRD125/126 (2.54, 2.66 & 2.83) have a differential lock. The diff. lock can be engaged using a pressurized air or mechanically pushing the piston (using a threaded bolt) to engage the diff. fork clutch. Engaging the diff. lock will allow torque to be driven through one side/both side of axle shafts but could potentially fail the axle shaft and load one of the differential bearing more than other side. 

Since CRD180-181 etc are tandems (2-drives connected with intermediary inter-axle shaft) so driving through CRD181 (Rear-rear carrier makes more sense. CRD180 will have inter-axle differential/PDLO which will need to be locked out to transmit torque to gears). 

Perfect straight angle drivelines are never a good idea as U-Joint fretting and other issues will scew the torques. Slight U-joint angle (<1 degree) will work well. CRD181 with targeted ratio around ~ 4.45:1 to 5:1 might be better choice if input motor/engine have sufficient HP/Troque/Speed range along with gearboxes (with appropriate gear ratios).

23 hours ago, CrashTestDummy said:

Good afternoon everyone!

 

I am working on one heck of a contraption I guess you could say, and the Mack drop-in differentials/housings appear to be an ideal configuration for what we're working on (unfortunately, about all I can say about the use is that they won't be driving wheels and tires - but you're welcome to speculate!).  I have a pretty extensive automotive background so I can generally speak the language, but I am struggling a bit with finding more specific data on things like carrier models, available ratios, HP/torque ratings, and things of that nature for things in the heavy truck world (in contrast to, say, a Dana 60 where one click in Google will yield anything you could possibly want to know).

 

So far I have been basically just collecting bits and pieces of information from use parts dealers and eBay listings, but I was wondering if there's some sort of resource for this sort of information that I am overlooking.  Even just a brief rundown on the different models and what can be learned from the designations would be helpful!

 

Thanks in advance for any help anyone is willing to give - it's greatly appreciated!

 

Take care,

-CTD

If you can be atleast a bit specific as to what Engine/Motor you are planning to run, input and output RPM's, Torques, expected life etc I might be able to help. CRD92/93 is out of production since 2009. The newer carrier series are CRD125/126 (125,000 lbs GCW - Linehaul); CRD150/151 (150,000 lbs GCW - Linehaul), CRD180/181 (180,000 lbs GCW - Linehaul); CRD95/96 (235,000 lbs GCW - Linehaul). CRD95/96 has been in production since 1945 and doesn't follow newer naming designation.

On 7/7/2020 at 4:11 AM, snowman_w900 said:

Thanks for that info @kt_Engineer .

I haven't pulled the hubs or bearings on yet, but I an planning on doing that so I can replace seals and if needed I'll put fresh bearings in.

It looks like they reused the original aluminum hub pilot hubs from what I can tell at a glance, but after seeing your post ill be taking a closer look at everything. 

Would the older Dana housing be of better quality in your opinion than the Meritor of that era (2005) in your opinion? 

I think Meritor housing has been swapped out with Dana for some reason. I would assume Meritor failed, so I would recommend keeping the Dana housing.

23 hours ago, snowman_w900 said:

I bought a 2005 Mack CHU tandem axle daycab. Its got CRDPC92 / 93Mack rears on Mack/Hendrickson air ride.

I'm getting ready to sand blast the frame and repaint it. I was taking the identification tags off to keep from destroying them, and here's what I found:

Front rearend axle housing tag is the fist photo,  

And then rear axle housing tag is the second. 

The Meritor front housing is original,  the rear looks to have been replaced at some point.  Is there any pros or cons to the Meritor vs Dana?

 

This is interesting. Mack axle has been designed by manufactured by Mack Engineering and was produced inside Mack facilities until 1986 (in Hagerstown, MD). Management decided to source the assembly to Dana and they were making it to Mack design from 1986-2002. From 2003-2009 Meritor was assembling it to Mack design and from 2009-2015 by American Axle and Manufaturing. The assembly was brought back in-house (to Hagerstown Pwt facility) in 2015.

Coming back to your question when Dana was making Mack fabricated steel axle housing the spindles were Mack proprietary design (dimensions are different than industry standard specs). When transition to Meritor happened, the spindles were changed to industry standard R-Series spindles (while at same time making Mack prop spindle version for After-Market support). 19QF4409P9/25080121 (new number) has been terminated.

Meritor tag are internal numbers and not valid Mack P/N so can't tell much about it. Meritor made some housings in 2005-2007 with a manufacturing defect where the stamping had sharp inside corner radius causing housing to fail in some severe applications. The issue was corrected and later design improvements were made to increase the inside corner wall radius so avoid manufacturing issues in future. All axle housings were not produced by Meritor or Dana but by tier-2 suppliers.

On 6/24/2020 at 1:02 PM, david wild said:

I do not believe that the Mack takes less HP to turn, I have turned them both on the floor and there is no way the Mack turned easier, are you using the lolol in your start out comparison ? I admit the Fuller has higher start out numbers, lucky for us we use the AT1202 one of which you see in my post going out to Seattle that I picked up and yes I have put them in the Macks too, we even had a RD with a Allison and a 4 speed aux, the Pete we brought in has 4.33 my CH has 4.42 the Pete will not back as slow as the Mack but in lolol it pretty low but the cure will be the aux trans which gives you better gearing for off road, you can use the low side and use every gear, the Mack you are stuck in the low gear and yes I know every one does not install aux trans but maybe they should look into it, I will stick by the my assertion that the Mack is way more costly to run and require way more care to keep running.

You need to turn 8LL input shaft 19.5 turns to see 1 turn on output shaft while T310MLR input shaft will need to be turned 27.31 turns to see 1 turn on output shaft. If you did put it in Lo-Lo gear obviously T310MLR would feel much harder to turn that doesn't mean rotational moment of inertia is higher than Eaton's.

If you are putting a aux. box behind your trans that's another $5k-10k additional cost. Repair cost of range section of T300 should be around $4k. Isn't it cheaper in long run even if you had to repair it twice. T300 synchronizer has been beefed up but got a bad reputation by the time this was done. Even with bad synchronizer's they didn't go out until 350k-450k miles. To break-even with spec you are mentioning it would take over Million miles.

Allison 4500 costs around $13k+ and add aux. box to it another $5k-$10k increased cost. Torque converter transmissions suck on fuel economy compared to manuals or Automated manual transmissions. Forget about breaking even or being less expensive option.

On 5/31/2020 at 8:50 AM, Hook n ladder 1 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong.  There should be zero free play when i push up on the drive shaft.  I have a little on the first U joint at the transmission, none at the next one off the carrier bearing, a little on the one going into the front tandem and a little on both on the tail shaft.  I haven't changed them in about 10 years so I don't remember if any free play was acceptable.  I didn't think it was.

 

Thanks guys.

I am assuming you are talking about the end play on the transmission output shaft? For manual transmissions with double taper bearing support or ballbearing and roller bearing support (on other end of output shaft/inside the the transmission) the end-play can be about 0.007"-0.008". For mDrive transmission when in neutral it can be as much as 0.040". It feels excessive but under drive the sun-gear in the planetary of range section is loaded and end-play will be much smaller. In unloaded condition there is only one ball-bearing supporting the entire planetary assembly hence the end-play is higher.

The carriers should also have around 0.007"-0.008" as they have double taper bearing system that are pre-loaded.

On 4/30/2020 at 9:12 AM, HarleyD said:

1M1AN09Y8GM022636

Looks like a 2015 Pinaccle CHU? Meritor 14x Amboid 2.64 axle ratio.

On 4/19/2020 at 10:38 AM, 03' Big Red said:

i have  heard different, i was told they wont transfer over by a certain Mack specialized salvage yard...i am hopeful KT_Engineer is correct. that would surely make things much easier

Only S652 - CRD95/96 (65,000 LBS GAWR) has unique housing and carrier assembly. The rest of the carriers don't fit on S652 housing and CRD95/96 carrier doesn't fit on other top mount axle housings.

On 4/18/2020 at 7:17 PM, 6368 said:

Good to know that they will bolt in.  What about compatibility with different side gears and axles/splines?  Please share more info about which ones are the same.

The spindles on S582 are different that S38R/S40/S442 (which have industry standard R-series spindles). If you have pre--2002 S38 etc axle housings then they will have different spindles too. Currently Mack uses R-series spindles for all housings upto 52,000 lbs GAWR (i.e S522R). You will need to swap out the axle shafts to match the housings (different lengths - couple of inches give/take).

On 3/21/2020 at 7:01 PM, 6368 said:

the carriers are different numbers 92/93  vs. 112/113.  the easy way out is to sell the 58,000  and buy what you want. IMHO you won't be gaining much in comfort.   i run 58k camel back everyday and don't think they ride any worse than  44k/46k.

On 3/21/2020 at 9:06 AM, 03' Big Red said:

i am buying a truck with 58,000lb rears but would like to go down in weight rating in the spring to get a nicer ride. will the 58,000 lb differentials fit into a 46,000 lb housing ? i am looking into swapping in a Haulmaxx cutoff but in the interest of saving money would prefer to keep the differentials and transfer them over.

CRD125/126,CRD150/151, CRD180/181, CRD92/93 & CRD112/113 will fit into any axle housing all the way from 38,000 to 58,000 lbs GAWR. So yes, you can take the differential from 58,000 lbs axle and put it in a 46,000 lb housing.

On 2/17/2020 at 9:42 PM, Dirtymilkman said:

Have 46,000 mack rears on air ride. Has manual power divider and the rear axle has wheel to wheel lock. Truck also has the mud/snow switch. The issue I'm having is, if I'm on ice, I try to pull forward and both front and rear axle on just the drivers side will roll forward half a turn then lock up and slide. I could back up and it will not do it. Sometimes though if i go to back up, they drivers side will slide in reverse but go forward easily. passenger side acts normal either way. If I manually lock the power divider and wheel to wheel then I'll move without sliding. Any ideas? Peanut kit time? 

I think it could be your ABS sensor on driver side wheel on rear-rear axle is messed up. You might have a 4S4M ABS system with 2 sensors on steer wheels and 2 on rear-rear drive axle. If the ABS sensor sees the wheel spinning out it will apply brakes on both front-rear and rear-rear drive axle wheels on same side. Check the position of the sensor (close enough to tone wheel) along with wires going to sensor itself.

1 hour ago, ButchB said:

mdrive. i'm swapping it out for a new pinnacle ch. new truck has 3.25 gears, 24.5's, diff lock, and the ability to turn off atc. I hope it does better in the woods than the anthem did.

3.25 ratio is available in Meritor 14x as well as Mack axle CRD150/151 series. Generally, I would consider this a bit fast for something going into woods and recommend something closer to 3.79 or 3.98. The reason for this is the amount of input torque into axle (in loose sand, packed dirt etc) is much higher than when driving on freeway and faster ratio only makes in worse (hence my previous comment of 2.47 ratio). The increased torque stresses out internal components. If you are stuck in mud and wheels are slipping be careful about using Rockfree or powerlaunch feature. Improper use of these features along with wheel-hop with diff. lock engaged will cause tremendous torque spike to go through system and break axle-shafts, diff. halves, thru-shafts and worst case gears and bearings.

On 1/16/2020 at 7:14 PM, ButchB said:

When I bought the truck the salesmen knew I was gonna use it for hauling logs but insisted it would be fine. It has Meritor rears. Weird thing is it has a gold bulldog so to me it should have mack rears. I called Meritor and asked about adding a diff lock and he said I couldn't unless I swapped the rears. Considering the gear ratio is 2.47 it might not be a bad idea. 

Wow...2.47 ratio for logging? Meritor 14x (2.47 is ratio available only in this series. Meritor 160 series tandem has 3.07 as fastest ratio) is a linehaul axle and recommended as an highway only axle typically pulling 80,000 lbs (and depending on grades upto 125,000 lbs in some cases). If you are using a really deep starting transmission gear ratio for off-highway use expect the axle to break soon (thru-shaft, diff. halves etc).

Mack does NOT sell Gold Bulldog with Meritor diff's. Looks like someone swapped out Silver Bulldog ornament with Gold. Does it have T300 manual transmission or mDrive AMT?

Do you have Mack axles or Meritor/Dana axles? Changing out to diff. locks will need you to swap out carriers built with diff. lock function (diff. fork, clutch, splined diff. halves - not something you can drill and add to your current carriers) along with axle shafts. Then you will need to add solenoids and have air lines to diff. carriers to activate them. On other end you will need lines to in-cab switch to activate diff. locks. Not a easy job.

On 3/18/2019 at 12:26 AM, mojazzn said:

Looking at new truck do you think that Inter-lock diff and full locking diff are both necesssary on 66k tri axel dump truck? The dump truck has inter-lock dif, not full 4 locking diffs.

Do you have  Mack CRD202-202-203 Tridem or a Meritor RZ166 Tridrive? Mack axle Power-Divider/Inter axle differential has automatic torque biasing and helpful for traction. In this case Inter-axle lock might suffice but Inter-Wheel diff lock will be helpful. The new Mack CRD180-180-181 Tri-Drive will have both Inter-axle and Inter-wheel lock.

TM308 has un-synchronized range and more robust if used properly.

On 12/30/2018 at 11:26 AM, john negoshian said:

does anyone know the difference between mack camel back 44000 suspension and 46000 suspension is it in the springs also front axle 18000 dule steering box and 20000 front axle im pretty sure the front axle is just spring nothing else but dont know about the difference on the rears any help would be great it is a2010 gu800 thanks    astroman

44,000 is also a Mack fab. steel axle - 44k GAWR with camelback suspension gets 11mm wall thickness while with Air Suspension (HAS/AL) will get a 14mm housing.Recently Mack Engineering approved 11mm @ 46k GAWR for camelback and 14mm @ 46k GAWR for Air suspension. If you have newer version of the housings (post - 2006/2007) then you can use at higher rating.

On 1/8/2019 at 10:28 PM, m16ty said:

I've got a set of 65K rears under my truck. Never really have paid much attention to the details of it. The axles are physically bigger than the smaller ones, the trunnion mount is massive with lots of bracing, and it's on walking beams.  

You have a Cast ductile axle housing @ 65K GAWR with CRD95/96 carrier. This has been in production since 1945.

On 6/5/2018 at 9:40 AM, 2000CL713 said:

Someone has a CRDPC202 for sale

Anyone know what the last "C" stands for? 

"C" stands for Carrier

The carrier P/N you are looking for with Power-Divider Lock-Out (CRDP202/PDLO/3.94 Ratio) is 21508361  (Mack alias 11KHA5479-P2 - Can't use this for ordering)

The front Spiral bevel lapped set for 3.94 ratio is P/N: 25503211

Bull gear P/N: 25101491 (61kh436); Helical Pinion/Spur shaft P/N: 25101850 (56KH436)

CRD92/93 has been out of production sine 2009 and will be hard to find. It has been replaced by CRD150/151

Mack axles are now assembled in Mack Powertrain plant in Hagerstown, MD.

CRD202/203 might be replaced with a new carrier series before end of this year.

On 6/6/2018 at 9:18 PM, 2000CL713 said:

anyone know the part numbers for 3.94 bull and spur set? 

4 hours ago, fjh said:

So apparently this exploding issue was a Bolt manufactures fault A  Single bolt that holds the gear to the spur shaft! threads were cut wrong  or something???

AT least that was what I heard or read somewhere!

The spur shaft bolt issue was internal threads on the Spur shaft being over-size (during heat-treat process of gears) which doesn't properly allow bolt to reach clamp load. Unfortunately, it was supplier creates issue and not design related. But end of the day it didn't matter to customer who was at fault. Now a process has been put in place to not repeat the mistake.

Single bolt design is unique to CRD150/151 carrier family series.

On 1/19/2018 at 1:58 PM, bbigrig said:

I'm seeing more and more issues with that M ride spring suspension. Lots of bushing issues.  Mack carriers exploding everywhere as well. I'm shocked. These Mack carriers are dropping like flies.

There will be a redesigned Mack Carrier launched end of 2018-early 2019. The new carrier will go away from single bolt threaded into the carrier housing concept to providing a flat surface on top able to mount the V-Stay with 4-studs.

On 1/23/2018 at 12:15 AM, bts-4120 said:

I've seen Mack chunks fail in on road applications never overloaded either.  Unheard of back in the day  I don't know whose building the rears for Mack now but they need to go back to the drawing board.

Is this other than M-Ride suspension (with V-Stay bolt stripping the carrier threads) you are talking about? What part of Mack carrier chunks are falling off?

On 1/11/2018 at 9:24 PM, Jamaican Bulldog said:

I guessing the numbers indicate the speeds and 'LR' indicate low range but what did  M, MLR, and ME in the series number indicate?

M is multi-speed reverse transmission (not range shift speeds but speeds in reverse where you select the reverse switch and then shift the stick as you would do going forward and picking up vehicle speed). So T310M has 10 forward speeds and 6 Reverse speeds. T310MLR will have multiple reverse speeds with creeper gear in forward (27.31:1) and reverse is 23.96:1. T310ME is extended output shaft with more clearance for rear counter-shaft mounted PTO's. T310ME21 is extended range that can be matched with 2100lb-ft torque producing engines.

On 1/7/2018 at 9:34 PM, Jamaican Bulldog said:

Just browsing the Mack website and I was surprised and glad to see under the description for the Maxitorque transmission that it comes in 19 models and ranges from  6 speeds up to 18! 

I did not realize that they were so many types of the Mack transmission available especially since Eaton and automatics seem to be more common. What is the take rate for this transmission? 

Despite the popularity of the Eaton and automatics are there still niches that give the Mack transmission an advantage over the others? 

I also thought that the mack transmission was only available in maybe 3 type of speed versions (13, 15,18). Who or what type of application still gets a 6 speed? Does it still give the advantage or the original integrated powertrain high torque rise concept?

Years ago I saw a DM with a 7 spd but thought anything less than that was discontinued.

 

 

There used to be 20 models until 2-3 years back but now T306G, TM308, T308M, TM309 & TM309M are no longer available in production. Current models available T309, T309LR, T310, T310M, T310MLR, T310ME, T310ME21, T313, T313LR, T313 21, T313LR21, T318, T318LR, T318 21 & T318LR21.