sodly

1 hour ago, daveigou said:

I've seen the pictures and heard the arguments, but you start with a big frontal opening, a big box over the engine, there's only so many ways to do it, is it really that much different than a GMC General or a 4300 International?

Good point, Dave.  There are only so many ways to skin a cat.  But I've somehow always been skeptical of that "Missing Link" article.  It feels to me like someone trying to manufacture a controversy/mystery when one doesn't really exist. Even if Mack took the inspiration for the Superliner from Brockway, so what?  They owned Brockway.  Why would they go to such lengths to cover that up?  As the article says, "Mack representatives, to this day, deny any connection to the Brockway design."  Looking at the two trucks I tend to believe them.  I see little in common except, as Dave pointed out, the big square hood that lots of trucks began to sprout in the late 70s.  We know Mack tweaked the R model to fit larger and larger engines about as much as they could.  So it doesn't seem at all surprising that they eventually were forced to come up with something along the lines of the Superliner to better fit and cool the larger engines of the 80s. What would be surprising would be to learn that this truck's development is some big corporate secret, especially after all these years.  Someone at Mack must know how it really went down and who's responsible for the design work and how it all evolved. Surely multiple design proposals and prototypes were made or drawn before being approved/rejected by management.  New flagship models like that don't just pop up out of thin air.  Lots of design work goes into them... even if maybe to us it just appears that they stuck a big square hood on an R model.  Anyway, I just find the whole thing curious and have always wondered about it.  Thought maybe someone here might know more than what's in that Missing Link article.     

Not sure I'd trust ask.com for this information, lol.  I have read the Australia line before, too.  Seems odd to me that Mack would farm their flagship model design out to Australia.  

So nobody knows, eh?  I think it's interesting that we have some photos of the still-born Brockway yet nothing exists on the Mack version that was surely more fleshed-out and ultimately reached production.  Weird!  When I look at the Brockway "Superliner" and the Mack version I see little in common, except a big, square grille.  The fenders are completely different.  The Brockway version even has a set-back front axle for cryin' out loud!  Surely this truck must've gone through some significant re-designing at Mack.  For example, they were obviously trying to suggest the R model hood shape with the character line in the sides of the Superliner hood.  I'd really love to know "the rest of the story," as Paul Harvey would say.    

I find vehicle design interesting.  We know Harley Earl gave us tail fins.  Larry Shinoda penned the Stingray Corvette.  Raymond Loewy designed many things including the Greyhound Scenicruiser and the Studebaker Avanti.  John DeLorean designed the GTO and Firebird at Pontiac.  Virgil Exner was responsible for the "forward look" at Chrysler in the late 50s.  

But does anyone know who designed the Superliner?  Was there one person largely responsible for it (doubtful)?  I realize it was apparently a take-off of an abandoned Brockway model but the still-born Brockway looked quite different from the Superliner (aside from sharing the same cab).  Someone... or some team of people.... (at Mack??) had to be responsible for the design.  Has anyone ever seen a design proposals for the Superliner?  Did Mack have a known design team in the 70s?  I've never seen a single pre-production Superliner photo, clay model or illustration.  Have any of you?  I wonder if the designer is still living.  Or if the Mack museum would know anything about it.  

Heck, for that matter who's responsible for the B and R model design?

Thanks!   

This is probably a naive question but I've always wondered about single axle tractors.  Maybe my memory is failing me but at a lot of truck shows it seems I'll see single axle tractors pulling full size tandem step deck trailers with a couple of big trucks on board.  It seems to me that these single axle tractors are often pulling the same size/weight tandem trailers that the twin screw tractors are.  I know back in the pre-war days you could get massive single rear axle trucks with high rear end weight ratings (like the big ol' FKs and so forth) but I thought modern single axle tractors generally came with approx. 23k lb rear ends.  Is this not the case?  Wouldn't a 45' drop deck with two tractors on it be quite a load for that single axle?  They sure don't seem to struggle with it and it seems like I see more than a few of them at shows which is why I ask.   Or am I just remembering wrong? 

I never drove a single axle tractor but I remember driving single axle straight trucks with trailers behind and a lot of times the tail would wag the dog.  Is this much of a problem on single axle tractors, too?  I never much liked that squirmy rear end feeling.  just curious.  Thanks.

Soooo cool.  Wow, the height difference between the Superliner and the B is rather striking.  And a Superliner is a short truck in height compared to todays trucks!  Interesting.    

That's the one.

On 7/23/2016 at 7:45 AM, yarnall said:

That BX has been one of my favorite trucks since I first saw it.  I only have pictures of it on film.  Tom sold most of his stuff a bunch of years ago and moved to Florida.  He has at least one truck because I have seen pictures of an AC belonging to him at shows in FL.  His GMC from Proctor was also sold to Iowa 80.  Gary Mahan ended up with some of his parts and trucks.  I have parts of a B85 fire truck that went from Tom to Gary to someone else to me. 

My parents bought all those videos back in the 90's.  We could get them redone if there is real interest.  Maybe Doug Maney would know more about them. 

Mike

Just wondering about those old ATCA videos you mentioned.  Is Doug Maney still around here?  When I emailed ATCA about those old videos they acted like they didn't even know what I was talking about.  Do you know anything about them, Doug?  Otherwise, I'd be interested in getting copies made, Mike, if you're interested in doing it.  Thanks!

How about fender-mounted turn signals?  Superliners always had distinctive turn signals to me with their round shape with one flat side, facing out.  Was this same turn signal unit used all through production?  Occasionally I'll see a later trucks with plain, square turn signals on the fenders but I presume these must be replacements.  Anyone know for sure?  Are the originals still available today?  

Here's another Superliner question.  There were different (aluminum) fuel tank options, correct?  I know there were different lengths but what about bore?  It seems that most Superliners had large-bore fuel tanks for higher capacity but some (perhaps off-road oriented ones) had a smaller bore, I assume for ground clearance.  I've also noticed different foot step brackets.  Some have two vertical braces between the tank and the step, some have only one.  Can anyone explain this?

Are there any here?  The BX has always been my favorite "really old" Mack but you rarely see any that have been restored/preserved.  In fact the one at Iowa 80's museum is about the only one that I can think of (and it's one of my faves, btw).  Just wondered if there were any BXs out there.  

#jealous

21 hours ago, GOOG said:

I have two 12 speeds, and to be honest, It isn't my favorite.  You can't preselect in the lower gears. You can't get into fifth gear without a little crunch from the air shift. I don't use the clutch.   

 

Yikes!  You can't pre-select the thumb switch on a 12 speed?  I figured surely you could... just like on a RR 13.

I'm not up on Mack 13 speeds.  Hoping to keep this conversation focused on the Mack 12 vs. the Fuller RR 13.  

13 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

The road ranger you have to shift the stick for every change. Macks you don't.

I have never had any luck driving a Mack with out a clutch. The Road Ranger is easier to shift not using a clutch at least I find it is.

Paul

Hmmm.  On all the Roadranger 13 speeds I drove you really only used 12 of the gears.  1st was basically granny low so you'd normally always start in 2nd.  But you did not move the shifter for each shift.  You move the shifter for the first 4 gears then pop it into high range and run through the 4 positions again.  However in high range you could split each gear with the thumb switch (giving a total of 12 gears).  I never used the clutch except to start/stop on the Roadrangers.  

Do you have to clutch each shift on a Mack 12 speed?!  Uuugh.  Hope that's not the case.  That would be a major turn-off.

Most all the trucks I ever drove had Fuller 13 speeds.  But I'm intrigued by the Mack 12 speed transmission.  I've watched several videos online showing how they work so I think I generally understand it.  Could anyone offer a comparison between driving the 13 speed and the 12 speed Mack?  I've heard some people say the 12 speed is a "love-it-or-hate-it" transmission.  Why is that?  And I've heard people say that if you're used to a 13 speed you'll have trouble adjusting to the 12 speed Mack.  Any truth to these rumors?  I've always heard good things about the Mack transmissions.  Would love to try one sometime.  Hopefully someday I'll get a chance.  

Does anyone have general dimensions of a Superliner?  Trying to ascertain basic height and width for storage purposes.  I realize some of these dimensions will vary slightly by model.  I used to get a blueprint-like image every year in new truck edition of Fleet Owner magazine back in the day.  I was able to find a scan of the RW blueprint but from Fleet Owner but, unfortunately, I can't make out any of the numbers.  Does anyone have a better image?  Or does anyone know the dimensions?  

Yeah, and that "original patina" AC ain't so bad, either.  Wonder how old that paint is?  Would love to know more about it.

Thanks, Jeff.  In the meantime I was able to track down Ken and he gave me most of the story you related.  Did you happen to get any photos of the interior?

1 hour ago, yarnall said:

That BX has been one of my favorite trucks since I first saw it.  I only have pictures of it on film.  Tom sold most of his stuff a bunch of years ago and moved to Florida.  He has at least one truck because I have seen pictures of an AC belonging to him at shows in FL.  His GMC from Proctor was also sold to Iowa 80.  Gary Mahan ended up with some of his parts and trucks.  I have parts of a B85 fire truck that went from Tom to Gary to someone else to me. 

My parents bought all those videos back in the 90's.  We could get them redone if there is real interest.  Maybe Doug Maney would know more about them. 

Mike

I, for one, would enjoy seeing some of those old videos.  Not sure about anyone else.

Ok, here's another topic I've often wondered about regarding Superliners.  Why do some have a grab handle on the cowl(s) just ahead of the door(s) and some don't?  And if you have them, are they automatically on both sides of the cab?  Anyone know?  Sometimes I'll see a radio antenna there instead.  Just curious.  

So just wider rubber... not taller?

Speaking of this truck, I have a question about "heavy spec" or "heavy haul" Superliners.  I read that this truck has a 20k lb front end and 58k rears.  Is that why heavy haul trucks seem to sit a little higher then normal Superliners?  Seems like there's more distance between the top of the front tires and the bottom of the front fenders.  Do they run taller rubber, too?  I really dig the tall look of Superliners like this one and Tackaberrys.  

And speaking of 58k rear ends, are the pointy hubs an indication of rear end capacity?  I seem to only see the point ones on heavy speck trucks.  Are the spoke wheels any different?  They seem to be taller as well.  Can anyone point out other differences between a standard Superliner and a heavy spec one that I might be missing?

Could you get a 6 cylinder engine in a heavy haul spec?  Or were they all pretty much V8s?

Darn.  Guess I'm in the minority that liked it better in the unusual root beer color.    Still a good looking truck, though.  

But wasn't there a point when Mack went from green metal to redesigned beige interiors across the board?