607t1173

LOVE it!I do like New England,less the weather,liberals,laws ect....Will miss some good friends/family,bit no way would I ever move back!

WELCOME!

I sometimes think that us transplanted politically conservative Yankee's out number the true native born Georgian's.

I relocated to Ga. (from Ohio) 30 years ago and found some of the most wonderful and friendly people that I've ever had the pleasure to know.

Business opportunities were plentiful.

Specifically, for someone with a true "good ole Yankee work ethic".

Within the first year I started to feel that I had found a true home.

People in Ga. have no concept of rust or old rusty northern Macks.

Twenty years ago you could still find quite a few rust free Mack trucks in Ga.

For about 10 years I bought every reasonably priced rust free B-Model (at least 25 or 30) that I could find until the EPA discovered me and my to quote them-"JUNK" hidden in an industrial park where I own 5 privacy fence enclosed acres.

They, (the EPA) definitely have no respect for our passion, even in good Ole Dixie.

NICER? Shoot I'll take that ol K Whopper if your not interested those old A models are sweet trucks. I always thought the ultimate collection would be an E9 Superliner, 3408 W900A ext. hood, KT600 359 ext. Hood, 8V92 GMC General and a Big Cam Dodge Big Horn.

I've owned every truck on your ultimate truck list less one and that one is the Bighorn I tried to buy one in the late 80's& the company told me that as soon as their new 9300 International was delivered they'd sell me the Bighorn but a Dodge collector offered him more than I did by about 6K

Interesting, I was always told when you do a gear flip your changing it one whole gear so you would get your STD .73 od ratio one gear down and your top gear becomes .64-.62 that's where they get the double od from. I know a couple guys that have done the flip in 15's so they can still have a decent starting gear, rob is the only one I know with an 8LL flipped.i have tried to get an od back box for a while but nobody can find one, plenty of ud back boxes available from 8LL,13,15,18's floating around but not many left from rtoo14613's.

I'm 65 years old and have been in the trucking industry for 44 years and am always learning something new.

I certainly wish that whoever started telling people about a double overdrive 15 speed or any other roadranger with the exception of a 13 or 18 could explain how they did it.

I have yet to find a single mechanic that ever claims to have done it or even understand how it's possible.

I've asked many of the very best thru the years since I first heard that claim

I've even gone so far as to offer to have one guys transmission disassembled at my expense.

He swore that when he bought the truck he was TOLD it was a double over 15 but he couldn't explain how it was accomplished.

Also that I would put in a brand new clutch in addition to reassembling his transmission.

Believe me I wouldn't have been willing to take that risk had I not checked out that claim many years before.

The double over 15 is kinda like the truck that got a speeding ticket in Texas at 135MPH.( or insert your own speed) cause it changes with the telling.

It's always claimed that it had to be taken out of Texas on a railroad flatcar cause they wouldn't allow it to be driven any further

after being caught going that fast.

I've known two different drivers who SWEAR that it was them that it happened to.

I was able to prove using mathematics that their trucks weren't capable of such speed as they claimed (I just never told them)

But flipping a gear that you claim is already an overdrive would still only yield a single overdrive(just a lower numeric ratio) and not a double overdrive. :clock_logo:By the way I've got the back box that you need (I know that the front box needs bearings) I will pull it off and check it when I get the chance.

Why? the *ll with the gear flip is in the KW dump above and the 15 speed was in my hands a few months ago and Im still thinking about buying it for the KW above, both an *ll and a 15 have under drive rear boxes and OD front boxes they are basically 9 speeds with UD back boxes to get the deep reduction the 8LL your only supposed to use in L the 15 has different gears and bearings for use of the Deep reduction in all low range gears, both are OD in 9th. Eaton says you cant do it but it used to be a fairly common practice to get more speed out of trucks without having to swap rears, the top gear wont pull for crap but its there for flat ground.

The gear flip is where the first and only overdrive comes from. (I've spent two hours this morning on the phone with the best transmission guys I know, who combined have done thousands of transmissions and they all agree on this)

There is no OD in the back box so how does it become a double over?

Yes,years ago we did flip the 4th & 5th gear to get an OD out of a direct transmission (most commonly 10 spds & very rarely 9's) The addition of a 13 spd back box on a 9 direct prevented you from having to sacrifice your 1st gear

That is why that your shift pattern is reversed in 4th & 5th.

And yes you're right an RTO-13 has the OD in the back box

.Also the possibility that you could flip the gears in the front box for a double over

Once you flipped the gears in an RT(direct) you sacrificed your 1st gear in converting it to an RTO(overdrive) and the reason that you had a trans with LL gears is so you could pull out loaded on a hill and still have decent road speed with the overdrive conversion.

Your friend has a 1693TA Cat in his W-900, great engine in it's day.

I've got one in a 71 extended hood Pete 359 that I've owned for many years along with an RTOO12513 for a transmission.

I bought a 1693TA when they were still available in a new truck (before the 3406 PC) in a (74 K-100 KW) and also had one in a 74 Freightliner COE that was won brand new in a contest from White-Freightliner.

39 years ago that was the most durable engine plus the added bonus of the most torque on the road.

It was also the first engine that I ever got a million miles of service out of without an overhaul.

The Freightliner had a cracked head at 660K due to a cowboy posing as a truckdriver getting it hot on Jellico Mtn

( The only drawback 3.5 miles per gallon but with fuel only costing 35 cents a gallon back when I first got them it was no big deal )

I know somebody with a double over 15 spd, the KW above has a double over 8LL but a 15 spd,8LL is od in the front box and under in the back box to get a double over you have to do a gear flip in the front box, putting a od box on the back of a low gear trans kinda defeats the purpose. I remember Eaton made a double OD 13 spd that was an OD 9 spd with an OD back box but most double over 13's are OD front and under rear with a gear flip in the main box, thats why the shift pattern is jacked up, its hard to find an OD back box to make a double over 13 with a OD 9spd and an OD back box, I know ive tried to find one to go on my RTX14609B cant find an OD back box

I suggest you contact Eaton Fuller and ask them about a double over 15 or a double over 8LL.

Been watching the Mecum Auto Auction from Indy this afternoon.

Old trucks and vintage muscle cars.

To an automotive nut like me it don't get much better than this.

Why couldn't It have been next week AFTER I hit powerball, so that

my wife couldn't bitch about me spending our retirement savings on

and this is to quote her "more junk to sit around while I dream about

what I'm gonna do to it"

SOUND FAMILIAR ???.

Might have been a friction fire.

That is when the insurance policy and the payment book rub together.

Twenty two years ago he had a $1000 to $1500 truck.

With the price of scrap metal going thru the roof he now has a $2500 to $3500 truck.

Maybe the dual exhaust and bumper must be what added the additional $10,500 to the value

of the truck when it was on E-Bay.

It almost looks like a 392 Chrysler hemi without the plugs coming out of the top of the head probably a V 53 they crank over about 3200 RPMs are so awesome.

It's a 6V53 the valve covers are the giveaway.

I came across this truck, it is unique and interesting. It belonged to the College of the Redwoods, Eureka CA. , and was used in their driver training course. From what I can find the College was founded in 1964 and had a variety of courses and one was truck driver training.

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196? Kenworth W 923, DD 871Tw/ jake, 5 & 4 transmissions, Aluminum frame and air ride.

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A second brake for the instructor.

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Bus seats fitted in the bunk for the students.

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The way it was back...

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All the gauges.

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Old school low air.

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Anyone know of someone that went to this college and took truck driver training?

FW

The wig wag says 60's but an 8V71T wasn't offered back then the 8V71was

I have to agree on the placement (or lack of) on the bulldogs,one of my pet peeves is when someone has one for sale,or are talking about a truck with one in it,its C-U-M-M-I-N-S Cummins engine not " Cummings" always bothered me i don't know why!.............Mark

I agree.

Another one is people claiming they have or know someone who has a double over 15 speed Fuller.

I have had many heated discussions with someone claiming to have a double over Fuller this or that.

When you ask how that could be possible they always fall back on the shift pattern.

Most don't even understand when you try to explain how a 13 speed OO is created thru the use of a single O.D in both the front and rear boxes, thus an OO.

Hopefully it won't evolve or maybe I should say devolve into what the GATR did back in the 80's as soon as the big money sponsors got involved.

It was a great and affordable series initially.

The little guy could be quite competitive if he had the cojones to drive it and more than average mechanical & fabrication skills.

At Atlanta E.J. Utley's Superliner ran up on slower moving trucks and when he checked up he spun out and hit the wall.

When his hood flew open I got to see the innovative first and only twin turbo setup on a Mack six cylinder engine that I had ever seen..

After seeing him try to pull out of the spin and how he stood on the throttle and started the tires spinning while trying to get it under control was some of the best driving I'd ever witnessed and after that I was hooked.

We built an R-Model with a Cummins twin turboed VT-903, RTOO12513 with 3:55's on torsion,it was a beast but I never got the chance to run it anywhere other than practicing on local dirt tracks.

We found in practice (after I had spun it out several times) that we had seriously miscalculated our final ratios with the high revving engine and double O.D. 13 because our original intention was to run on longer paved tracks(not short dirt tracks) and by then the big money sponsors had already ruined the GATR for the average truck nut like me.

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I've seen people spend a lot of money trying to fix this relatively simple problem on the old mechanical engines.

After all of the professional shops and Mack dealers get thru rebuilding pumps and governors and all of the mounts and anything else they can think of.

About 9 times out of 10 it's the throttle arm on the pump & it's usually either a weak or broken spring in the arm.

The BEST Mack (he started in the 30's) mechanic I ever knew told me 40+ years ago to look at this first when ever I encountered this problem.

That truck has been restored at least once, DOT numbers did not come out until the mid 90's, before that they were ICC numbers so the DOT number and phone number dont jive on the door. Milage is probably since last restoration.

The letters also look like they are not painted on

I was made aware of this truck in the late 80's.

At that time I had a cherry little '53 B-42 that had 12K actual verifiable miles on it and the guy that owned this truck was among those who came to see it.

He told me about this original B-61 that he claimed to have bought new while living in New Jersey in '60

Just a few months later I was at his shop and this truck was there and hooked to a single axle lowboy(he was using it to haul his grading equipment)

If you've ever driven any where around the North Side of Atlanta you'd know that even the slowest of vehicles drive faster than 70MPH and he used this truck to haul construction equipment so I seriously doubt the 45MPH claim.

I'm almost certain that it was in the early 90's when he restored it because he called me about some parts that he needed and I put him on to Tidewater Mack back when OEM parts were still affordable.

The phone # on the door is a joke from HEE HAW the prime time country TV show from the 60's & 70's and Junior Samples one of it's country comedian performers.( and his portrayal of a wanna-be used car salesman)

When I finally put on my glasses so I could see the pictures of the truck better I caught the BR 549 and the Jersey, Ga. reference.

Though it didn't have this lettering on it at the time I saw it I still feel that this is the same truck.

If this is the truck that I think it is I had an opportunity to buy it in the late 80's or early 90's I feel fairly certain that I do know this truck and if you'll look at the sign on the door it say's Jersey,Ga.. The guy that bought this truck new was from Jersey and had moved to Ga. in the 80's. The truck was restored in the early 90's and was a real nice one owner example at that time I'm almost certain that it's not a 45 MPH truck.

In the early 90's I sold the original owner and his brothers a couple of dumptrucks for use in their landscape supply business.

I'll be back in Ga. next week and will come by and drive it if you want and we'll find out how it's really geared.

If this is the truck that I think it is I had an opportunity to buy it in the late 80's or early 90's

I just noticed the phone # on the door and thought that this truck must've belonged to another Georgia native by the name of Junior Samples.

I must agree that to make ANY changes to this original, pristine, perfect example of an iconic truck with only 39K miles would be shameful.

PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE A THING

Consider seeing if your customer will put a price on it cause I'm sure that someone on this sight (me included) would be willing to make a premium offer for this rare truck.

I've been searching for the H-67 for better than 20 years .

I saw the truck in '80 in Knoxville,Tn. At that time it was located on I-75 N at the Merchants Dr. Exit on the east side of the highway ,in side a fenced lot. It was on a Sunday there was no body at the lot . I had heard of the truck and had already talked to the guy who built it & he had told me that he was building it for Waylon. I very foolishly climbed over the 10' chainlink fence and

I came very close to getting bit by the Doberman that they had guarding the lot. I never saw the dog until I was inside the fence and I only got out after I had a buddy go to a supermarket and buy several pounds of hamburger to use to bait him away from that H-Model cause he had me cornered on the top of truck. It was a one of a kind H-Model and appeared to have had a high dollar resto' and updated running gear.

I'm aware that a RTO isn't going to increase his road speed but he had mentioned a 7 or 9 speed trans and I have always found the 15 spd Fuller makes the best and most driver friendly choice. If they were to put a later model rear differential (as he stated) in it they can choose the ratio that they think they need and with the deep reduction they'll have the ability to use a 3:70 or maybe a 3:90 or even a 4:11. As for a RTOO 13 speed Fuller transmission,many years ago I bought some mixers with NTC 230 Cummins and RTOO 13 speeds and we eventually changed them over to 8LL's and sacrificed speed (running empty) for pulling power when( we were loaded) in the hills. If he was using the truck for anything other than a hobby truck the only time he'd ever get a 13 double over Fuller mated to a END 673 in double over would be going down a hill. The later model 18 Speeds are great with the double over but I doubt that he would want to spend the bucks that it would take for that conversion. The ones I've got are running behind 550 Cats and even with that much torque it's hard to run in double over if you're grossing close to 80K .

In what state was this barn find located?

I should probably elaborate further as to why a RTO 15 Speed I have personally done this swap a number of times using the RTO 915 and RTO 12515. They are relatively inexpensive and still found in alot of older trucks you'll need to buy the transmission bellhousing with provisions for motor mounts but you'll have a much more "novice friendly"truck to drive.

I think Superdog hit the nail on the head with his answer. Most and I emphasize the word Most people aren't proficient in properly shifting this transmission as you can see on You tube

If you are determined to remove the Triplex in order to increase your road speed try an RTO 15 speed it's a .78 O.D. and with the deep reduction feature you will have the best of both worlds also it's so much quicker and easier to shift, the Mack engine responds very well with this swap especially in the hills. You'll lose the aesthetics of two sticks which to the purist is nothing short of blasphemy but you will definitely improve the driveability.

If it was mine and had 39K actual verifiable miles I would try to upgrade the differential and would leave the transmission as is.

I had an FS786L in '75 it was my first 300 and no driver with the biggest and baddest large car on the road today could be as proud as I was the day I took delivery of that beautiful and (for then) powerful truck.

A lot of the older O/O's used to laughingly tell me that I was gonna rub the paint off of it because if I wasn't polishing it then it was being driven or I was sleeping in it.

Kinda reminds me of back in the day when I looked forward to my next overdrive magazine being there when I came in off the road.

The first thing I'd do was open it up to the truck of the month and hope that it would be an older Mack LJ,B-model,H-model or maybe an R but preferably an F-model.

More often than not it would be another "payment book " which is what we called later model trucks that we couldn't afford to buy back then.

I enjoyed the picture of the F-Model and wasn't aware that he owned one.

Though I would love to say that this is the one I'm searching for it's not this truck.

The H-67 that I remember was definitely a one of a kind and for that reason I can't believe that no one knows where it is today.

I would be willing to give $1000 as a finders fee if I could locate and be able to purchase (with-in reason) this unique truck.

I've been an H-Model enthusiast (nut) for over 40 years and the two that I've always wanted to own were the Joe Mustang H-63 and this H-67 straight truck.

I know that the Mustang H-63 went to someone who respects, appreciates and understands what an integral part of the history of trucking legends that he owns. That leaves this H-67 that I hope to someday own (with-in reason)