Blackened

CAN A LOCAL MACK DEALERSHIP PRORAM THE ECU OR DOES THE FACTORY SETTINGS HAVE TO BE APPROVED AND PROGRAMED VIA THE FACTORY?

wHEN MY 2003 WAS NEW WE RESET A FEW THINGS ,BUT I WASNT THERE WHEN THE CHANGES WERE MADE.

I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE LOW END TORQUE CURVE MODIFIED SO THE POWER COMES IN AT A LOWER RPM.

We purchased a Sterling at a Mack dealer and they had no problem changing some of the settings like the speed governor.

The EGR cooler has been confirmed cracked internally. Its good that its not a head gasket, but sucks that it costs $1500! Even the Mack parts dealer was shocked at the cost of these things. I tried to see if he could work out a lower price since we been dealing with them for almost 35 years now and he said that price is the best he can do. I'll have the part on Monday and installed some point during the week. The Mack service manager said that they are releasing a updated computer tune in the very near future that's supposed to prevent this from happening again. He has a tractor with the same exact problems in his shop this very moment and they are waiting for the update to try out on it. I didn't get all the details, but they told us to bring the tractor by when its available. Ill be sure to find out what exactly it does to prevent this problem.

Thanks for the info gentlemen, I'm hoping this ends my headache!

I don't have a copy of the bulletin, but here are the instructions from it.

Pressure test the EGR cooler as follows:

Operate the vehicle until normal operating temperature is obtained.

The engine must be at operating temperature to perform this test. If the engine is not at operating temperature, results of this test will be inconclusive.

Return to the service facility, shut the engine off and apply the parking brakes.

Open the hood and then remove the top halves of both the upper and lower clamps that secure the mass flow tube to the engine.

Disconnect the mass flow tube coupling hose from the EGR cooler, and move the tube out of the way. If the EGR cooler utilizes the flange adapter hose connection, remove the V-band clamp from the adapter to disconnect the mass flow tube from the cooler.

Remove the cap from the surge tank.

Install the EGR cooler test fixture to the cooler.

Fully close the test fixture air regulator before connecting shop air.

Connect shop air to the regulator fitting, and then slowly open the regulator until a maximum of 20 psi (as indicated on the pressure gauge) is applied.

DO NOT apply more than 20 psi to the EGR cooler.

With air pressure applied to the EGR cooler, observe the coolant surge tank. If the EGR cooler is leaking internally, a gurgling sound will be heard coming from the surge tank, and coolant will eventually be pushed out through the surge tank filler neck as the coolant aerates. Replace the EGR cooler if the results of this test indicate that the EGR cooler is leaking internally.

If the pushing coolant complaint cannot be resolved after performing the investigation outlined above, the cause may be combustion leakage past the head gasket and/or fire rings. Diagnostic procedures to determine combustion leakage are outlined in service bulletin SB213042. Combustion leakage, however, is the least likely cause of pushing coolant.

Thank you sir. I knew there had to be some sort of tool to perform this. Im also glad to hear that the head gasket is the least likely issue for this problem.

Sorry to dig up a older thread but, Would excessive soot in the cooler cause it to crack? Im having this coolant pressure problem and I'm leaning towards all the crap that's built up in the cooler building up pressure and put a crack into the case which is now pressurizing the coolant.

we had a truck like this and after a bunch of times we finally got the egr cooler to leak it would only leak sometimes

This is my next step. I replaced the waterpump and even pulled it back out to check to be sure it wasn't slipping on the shaft.

I took the truck to Albany the other day and it blew coolant out the overflow tube once again even with the one piece tank.

I bled the air out and filled the tank again and it got me home without any issue. The next day I took it upstate NY with a load and it pumped coolant out again. I bled the air and refilled it, but it blew out again in a short while. I checked the coolant its a tinge darker and has a slight exhaust smell to it. I called Mack and the service manager told me that they been changing the EGR coolers for these issues. Then he quoted me a price of $1500 for it! I pulled it off the engine this afternoon, but a little unsure what the best way to test it would be. I didn't see any coolant in the exhaust inlet or outlet, but it probably burned off anyways so how exactly can I test this before I throw more money at it without being 100% sure?

Thanks for any info.

For those keeping score....

Replaced and then re-checked waterpump. (No issues)

Replaced both thermostats.

Pulled out radiator and checked for blockage. (Nothing inside, no blockage)

Checked oil cooler filter (Clean and clear)

Replaced the 2 piece reservoir with the updated one piece (Didn't solve issue)

Flushed coolant twice

Replaced water filter twice

No oil in coolant

No coolant in oil

No smoke

Let air compressor pump but didn't replicate problem.

Now I pulled the EGR cooler off and plan to test it to be 100% sure. There was a hand engraved etching on the back with the date 12/Nov/2003 and Made in Mexico. I have 298K miles on the truck and this is the original cooler so its very possible that this may be the issue.

Now how do I test it???

Happy to announce that the truck has been trouble free so far and I've been running the hell out of it with a drop of coolant loss.

Thanks again guys for your help! I would have never figured a TSB for a problem that has no actual reason behind it.

Have to ask... did you check the linkage for any binding. I had this issue after I installed a throttle lock and it was causing the pedal to stick right before idle RPM.

Simple test would be to remove the throttle linkage and work the pump by hand to be certain if its in the pump or the linkage. I have had linkages bind near the exhaust on several occasions.

Hey Ernie,could'nt ya just see this thing trying to make a right off Tonnelle ave. somewhere? LOL!...............Mark

LOL Ain't happening. Going through there with a day cab and a 48'er is enough of a pain.

Check the air compressor.

I had a E7 427 that was puking coolant & overheating, turned out that there was a crack in the air compressor allowing air pressure into the cooling system.

Also, this past week where I work now, we had a Cat c13 in a IH Paystar blowing coolant out so bad it ruptured the reservoir tank. Turned out to be a blown head gasket in the air compressor.

I thought air compressor at first as well. I had a Cummins in a sterling that had a bad compressor head gasket and it pumped air into the coolant. You would smell coolant in the air tanks and it would be warm air coming out the lines. I opened the tanks on the Mack and let the compressor continue to pump, but I couldn't replicate the problem. Also any water that built up in the air tanks was clean and ice cold no matter what the temp the engine was so that made me look elsewhere for the issue. I ran it hard on the NJ turnpike for 10 miles and it didn't build pressure like before. I also routed the overflow tube where I can see it without opening the hood each time I came to a stop. So far no issues, but if it does start to pump up again, I plan on pulling the EGR off the engine and give it a full inspection.

One odd thing I noticed, When the waterpump let go I replaced the pump along with a new Fleetguard water filter. Not soon after the swap I started having issues. When I pulled out the oil cooler filter I saw little grains of the element that's inside of the water filter in the screen. Normally they shouldn't escape the filter and get into the coolant. At least I've never seen that before on any engine's cooling system I've worked on. After replacing the double tank with the single tank, I also replaced the water filter again as a safe guard along with new coolant. Now I'm wondering if a defective water filter was the cause of my problems to begin with. I tried filling up the filter I took off the engine with water along side a brand new water filter and it seems to fill up slower then the new filter, I filled the middle and it don't go down and fill the outer passage of the filter as fast as the new one so it's making me suspect that it was building pressure due to the blockage inside the filter.

Bad filters are very uncommon so I'm just curious if I won the unlucky lotto in this situation. Anyone ever experience a defective filter before?

Its basically like driving a full size bus with a trailer on the back. I'd like to see what route he took to get through NYC with something like that.

Well today was the first day out with the new tank setup. I have 2 runs from the Trade center to NJ and I been pushing it as hard as I can to see if its really fixed, so far so good. The temp gauge has been doing its normal up and down sweeps as well as the oil temp. Nothing blowing out the overflow line and the temp also comes down after idling for a while unlike it did the last time. I would have to really put some long distance miles on it like I did when it was blowing out the last time to really prove its fixed, but so far its back in service.

Thanks for all your help gentlemen with the TSB info. I probably would have ended up tearing this thing down only to have the same issue after all that labor.

With the installation of my "new" spin on oil filter housing, I need to remove the original block heater. I was going to maybe swap it with core plug further back? Not sure yet as I have not been able to unscrew the heater plug from block. I got the element out, but can't unscrew the rest. I haven't applied heat yet, but just wondered if anyone else has tried removing one of these after 50 yrs!!

You can see the edge of the heater in the top of this shot:

If I can get the plug out just to the rear(kinda behind the road draft tube), then I'll swap them and reuse the heater. If not, then I need to locate a new plug. Already checked and plug is not available round my area(need to order one). Trying to avoid that.

A bolt sitting in the block for 50yrs sounds like a nightmare bound to happen if it snaps off. You may wanna order the plug and move on with life. I would hate to have something that seems simple enough turn into a huge project.

Just a update... I ordered the one piece tank from Mack yesterday and today and they sent me the wrong part. The parts guy cross-referenced the tank part number on the TSB and came up with the number of the part he sent me which was just the top half metal tank. Thanks to you guys, I faxed him over the TSB showing the tank and Ill have the right tank on Friday morning. Crazy thing was that the top metal half of the tank at my cost was $370, the one piece metal tank was around $295. You would think half a tank would be cheaper!

Im just wondering that after running almost 290K miles with the split tank set-up, why would it all of a sudden start to build pressure? Im wondering if higher mileage plays a part in this or just a design flaw that shows its ugly head at any given time?

Ill have it installed on Friday then run the hell out of it and see what it does. Next step after this is to tear it down.

They said that the "R" model was the most popular Mack with over 400K units sold. I think that number is pretty low considering how long the design has been around.

We had a Superliner day cab with a Silver 92 in it. It was originally built to pull a dump trailer. After rebuilding the engine twice and having a driver come back with a 90mph speeding ticket, a for sale sign was put on it. This has to be almost 20yrs ago since we sold it.

Thanks Guys, thought I might have said something wrong...........so its a pretty sraight forward job, good to know. am hoping to take it off and take it to RI for the rebuild this week. Have never done a pump before and Id rather ask questions first than find myself f$%@$ng something up later, Thanks again, Rick

Just remember where the dowel is on the shaft in relation to the drive gear inside the pump. The hardest part of the job is getting it lined up. Other then that, I've had a pump swap done in less then a hour.

I really hope it was just a leak in the line that was causing the low reading? I hope, I hope, I hope.......

If you are pumping oil out of the line then yeah I would think that would show lower pressure on the gauge, also a restriction or kink in the line would create pressure and could break the line. This could have been your low pressure problem to begin with and the increase in pressure from the housing broke the line where the restriction was. I would get rid of that cooper line and put a braided or plastic line in.

If the pulley is 5 7/8" and it's on an AC engine then it's the wrong pump. Check back and see what part you were sold, the part number for the AC cartridge used to be 316GC3193. I don't know if the number has changed though.

I just checked, same number still.

I measured it and then measured the pulleys in the other 2 identical tractors and they are all the same size. I think I will follow the advise and go for a one piece metal tank. I appreciate all the responses. Its always better to get advice from guys who have experienced this and found a solution then for me to just throw money and time into the truck and never solve anything.

I shall start my search for a tank tonight!

I certainly agree with rhaslers suggestion to change to the one piece metal coolant tank,i went through a similar situation with my 2001 CX,went through 6 plastic replacements before the metal tank was even available as an option!.....it will sure save you a lot of aggravation/greif! since the change i have had 0 problems with the new set-up...................Mark

Yeah I think I may look into that. I checked the pulley and its the 5-7/8 one. The one piece metal tank eliminates the expansion tank and makes it a completely closed system? If Im building pressure like that wouldn't that blow the cap off it instead?

AC is ASET cooled EGR, AI/AMI is internal EGR. The ASET engines were designated as either AC (highway usage) or AI/AMI (vocational usage). Both engines have EGR. The AC has a "selective" system that allows the engine ecu to increase and decrease EGR as needed through control of an EGR valve. The AI/AMI on the other hand inducts EGR gas on every stroke due to an extra bump on the cam lobe.

Thanks for the education on these engines. If it was a mechanical 300 or 350 in a R model, I would have this already figured out. This engine is foreign to me in more ways then just saying Renault on it! Its a day cab tractor, nothing heavy duty, it was originally built to haul a tanker when we bought it which would probably make it fall into the AI usage. I haven't had the EGR apart or even know if it has the "selective" system in it, but we have 2 other identical tractors that I can compare the water pump pulley to if I have a doubt. The more I think about it the more it would make sense that its fine at a lower RPM and would build pressure at a higher RPM if the pump is turning too fast and cavitating in the housing. I have also noticed that the coolant temp is lower then the other two trucks which would also be a indication of it turning faster then it should be. I really appreciate the info. It is something that I would have over looked considering its a brand new pump and I had no idea of 2 different variations of it. I hope to have a answer tomorrow if there is a difference.

Thanks a million!!!

Here are a couple of things you might check. If you have a two piece reservoir arrangement replace it with the one piece metal tank. If the cooling system is not updated with the parts in the bulletin I would install them. The water pump cartridge may be sucking air or the water pump housing (big aluminum housing that the cartridge is bolted into) may be cavitated, this will cause your problem. Measure the OD of the pulley on the water pump cartridge. The AC cartridge has a 5 1/4" pulley, the AI uses a 5 7/8" pulley. Installing the AI pump cartridge will cause 10% higher coolant temperatures.

Thanks for the tips. Just what does AC and AI stand for? The truck has close to 300K miles on it, I just find it strange that these problems would happen all of a sudden. The water pump theory sounds on par with whats going on. I'm wondering if the dealer sent us the wrong pump and that is the issue. It seems that this pumping pressure into the expansion tank seemed to happen after the waterpump install. Today when I had it out I checked the backplate that the impeller of the waterpump spins against and it was clean and had no marks on it.

I will get a measurement on that pulley. I can see how a smaller pulley will turn faster and cause cavitation inside the housing under higher RPM.

Today I put a lot of effort in the truck. I checked the oil cooler filter and it was clean, I pulled the steel tube off the oil cooler to the EGR, it was dry and had only carbon inside, I pulled the radiator hoses off and flushed it out. It was also clean and had no restrictions. I checked the oil in the trans and it was clean. I put a new water filter on it and checked the anti-freeze I drained out and that was clean. I pressure tested it and its holding full pressure without dropping. I also pulled out the water pump to make sure the impeller wasn't slipping on the shaft. That was tight and fine too.

How long before I set this thing on fire?

Thanks for the replies! We purchased the truck from a Mack dealer in 06 and I'm pretty sure they performed the thermostat housing updates. I will still go over the details in the file and make sure. That one update from 2008 may have come back and caused the issue. We have 3 identical trucks all purchased at the same time and only my truck is having the problem.

Thanks for the info! Ill post up when I start going through it either tonight or tomorrow.

Hey guys,Im having a bit of a issue with a 2004 CX 613 Mack tractor. A month ago after a 150 mile trip up to Albany NY, the expansion tank in the truck filled up with coolant and built up pressure like it was going to burst. I shut it down and cracked open the line on the upper radiator hose to relieve the pressure. Once I did that I was able to hear the coolant start flowing through the engine again and I drained out the expansion tank. I refilled the upper tank and kept a eye on it the ride back. The truck never overheated or ran hot the entire time this happened but it just pressurized the expansion tank.

When I got back to the shop I installed 2 new thermostats and found that the radiator cap wouldn't hold pressure so I replaced that too. I have no oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil, no white smoke, no bubbles in the coolant, no exhaust smell from the coolant, no coolant consumption,and nothing that would point towards head gasket. I also checked the air tanks to be sure the compressor wasn't at fault.

I drove the truck hard all around the neighborhood and lugged it down as much as I could but I couldn't replicate the problem so I figured it was fixed. That was until I took the truck out on a short haul into NJ and had the same issue within the first 40 miles of the trip. Now here's what I noticed. If I baby the truck and keep it running at 1/2 throttle with no load, the temp and the coolant will be normal and not build pressure. If I keep it at full throttle with a load on, it will build up pressure and start blowing out the expansion tank. On some extended drives at full throttle with the cruise control on, I would get the electronic malfunction light on the dash and I would loose all turbo boost for a few seconds then it would clear and the truck would pull like normal. Lately it hasn't been doing that but started building this pressure under a load. I been reading about the EGR coolers failing so I'm wondering if this would sound like something related to that problem or am I looking at something more serious?

Within the last 2 yrs,the oil cooler filter was replaced. The water pump was replaced 3 months ago due to it leaking out the weep hole along with the water filter and a full coolant flush was done.

Thanks for any info.