dagotwit

Interesting selection in light of the fact that MAN has successfully sold its trucks to the Australian, British, and New Zealand Armies.

Most likely they belong to the U. S. Department of Energy's Office of Secure Transportation (OST).  Most likely they deal with nuclear weapons security.

https://nnsa.energy.gov/aboutus/ourprograms/defenseprograms/securetransportation

A British truck driver has set up a GoFundMe page for the murdered driver:

http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/berlin-market-attack-british-trucker-raises-funds-for-slain-polish-driver

The GoFundMe page is here:

https://www.gofundme.com/van9vwuk

Their success bit forgot to mention their foray into the US market.

Isn't there a fire department in Hawaii that has a Tatra truck?

Couple of questions:

1) Will this be the stat of a gradual MAN/Scania merger?

2) Will we see this company attempt to enter the US market?

cont'd Part II

The truckmaking unit of MAN isn't thrilled about having Volkswagen as a majority stake-holding master. But at least they're both German. Scania is a fiercely proud Swedish truckmaker. No Swede wants to be under the control of Germans. The very thought of Scania becoming a VW subsidiary has the country in an uproar.

The catalyst for Scania's never-ending cutting edge heavy truck innovations has been its position as an independent truckmaker. The workforce at Scania is known for its deep passsion and enthusiasm, no different than the Mack family years ago.

The Germans at VW have no more passion for Scania than Volvo had for the former Mack Trucks. VW will gut the company as Volvo has Mack. The business world is a cold and calculated place (particularly with Europeans), which is why governments at select moments need to step in as a matter of national interest. In the case of Mack Trucks, that did not occur.

Any chance of the Swedish government forcing a merger with Volvo?

Why did MAN never enter the US market? In the 1970s, MAN observed Mercedes-Benz fail in the US truck market. Also, unlike Scania with its T-Series, MAN did not have any conventional truck models to send over.

MAN did enter the US marine engine business. Like Scania's marine and industrial engines, they are quite good. http://www.man-mec.com/en/index.html

I guess they could still buy Navistar.

Thank you as always. Your posts are the type of education I enjoy.

cont'd

Business in Europe is conducted much more aggressively than the US. The Swedes (Scania and Volvo) have an intense rivalry with each other first of all, and then with the Germans (Daimler and MAN) and the Italians (Iveco).

Very true. I was was told that Booz & Company did a management study of European and American businesses, as well as the US military for comparison. The Europeans were the most aggressive in removing poorly performing managers, the US military the least.

It's no surprise that the U.S. concept and culture of heavy truck engineering is dramatically different from the European truckmakers, and again so different from the Japanese truckmakers. But it's just as true that the company culture, that catalyst for innovation, is tremendously different between Swedish and German truckmakers.

IEEE Spectrum magazine has an interesting article comparing engineers from various European countries and how they approached their work. My favorite was the comparison between Spanish and British engineers. The Spanish engineers worked late, did very good work, and stayed until the job was done. The British engineers worked hard, and at 5:00 pm immediately stopped working and asked for directions to the nearest pub.

When Americans think of (Western) Europe, you imagine many small countries close together. You imagine a meshing of cultures. But that couldn't be further from the truth. The Germans, French, Swedes, ect. each have their own very unique cultural ways, and there's visible resentment for each other. Owing to our history, America is a country of people orignating from the world over. Europe isn't. The U.S. is extremely multi-cultural compared to the "old countries".

I should have realized this, having Southern Italian parents.

At America's Cummins operations worldwide, you'll see employees from all over the world, owing to our country's diversity. However at the German truckmakers, you'll rarely see a nationality other than Germans, and the same goes for the Swedish truckmakers.

It would appear that IVECO has managed to successfully combine Italian, German, Spanish, and British companies. The real test is how many non-Italians make it into senior management.

of course mack military team knows about the RM and business in Australia. basing overall incompetence on the comments of one person makes no sense. who did you talk to? the receptionist? an intern there experiencing a show as a thank you? perhaps a new hire from a month or two ago?

The person I talked to was a Mack defense employee working Mack's exhibitor booth. Mack military's team may be familiar with their RMs now, but when someone answers your question about why Mack doesn't market the trucks it has building in Australia to the US Military with "I didn't know about that" (to the best of my recollection), then he obviously didn't know they existed.

To be fair to the booth rep, my impression is that Mack's attempts to re-enter the military market are a day late and a dollar short. Mack saw the dollar signs after DoD purchased the Buffalo with Mack components, and the Volvo/Mack management figured they could cash in with a militarized version of the Granite as a COTS sale. Volvo/Mack does not know how to sell to the DoD; the results on Mack Defense's website are proof. Note that back in the the 2000s early 2010s Mack Defense had an office in Alexandria, VA, where I live. I have walked past it many times, it is a small suite. The Alexandria office isn't listed on the website anymore. They did not, and still do not have the sales and lobbying presence needed to compete with Navistar, let alone AM General or Oshkosh.

the last FMTV contract was "build to spec". meaning that if you bid, it was to a predetermined sets of FMTV specs- no submitting your own unique truck allowed. so in essence it boiled down to who could source parts and assemble the cheapest, and who was willing to take the lowest margin.

True, but the Renault/Volvo trucks built for their respective militaries would be built to the same NATO standardization specifications as the Austrian Steyr that the FMTV was based on. It would interesting to know if Renault/Volvo studied the possibility of license building a medium military truck in the USA.

kscarbel2,

You mentioned in another thread about some of the differences in philosophy between MAN and Scania. I am interested in hearing what they are. Also, why has MAN never tried to enter the North American market?

Thanks.

Originally, BAE wasn't in the picture. Houston-based Stewart & Stevenson (better known for producing specialized equipment for the oil and gas industries) won a US government contract to supply FMTVs (family of medium tactical vehicles) in 1998, an Americanized version (Cat 3116, Allison MD3070PT) of the Steyr model 12M18 from Austria.

Armor Holdings bought Stewart & Stevenson's military vehicle division in 2006, and BAE bought Armor Holdings in 2007.

And then Oshkosh won the contract away from BAE in 2011 to build FMTVs, despite never having been involved in its development.

I like Oshkosh. I don't like the FMTV.

The FMTV's Steyr cab, assembled in the US (in order to qualify for the U.S. contract) by McLaughlin Body Company in Moline, Illinois from imported components, is ridiculously expensive.

Thanks for the explanation; I remember when Stewart & Stevenson got the contract and didn't realize all of the changes. IIRC the FMTV had other problems besides costs. This gives an interesting insight into how the Army buys trucks. My impression is that Mack saw an opportunity in the mid-2000s to try and get in to the military market, but they were Johnny-come-latelys and couldn't compete against the Oshkoshes and AM Generals.

Volvo obtained a fixed-price with economic-price-adjustment/indefinite-delivery contract. They did not win a bid (tender) to sell vehicles. A supplier must have obtained this contract in order for the U.S. military to be able to purchase from you, should they decide to do so.

To get in the game, it was necessary for foreign truckmaker Volvo Group to successfully create a shell company in the U.S. that would allow them to sell vehicles to America's military. This is the purpose of the Mack Defense unit (http://www.mackdefense.com/) of Volvo Group Trucks Sales & Marketing Americas.

The entire range of tactical vehicles is from Renault Trucks Defense (http://www.renault-trucks-defense.com/en/range/), now a wholly owned Volvo Group subsidiary (since December 2012).

The U.S. Department of Defense would never walk away from Oshkosh, Navistar or other American suppliers to purchase French military vehicles from a Swedish truckmaker. But with the creation of a shell company called Mack Defense LLC (Limited Liability Company), and the installation of Mack logos onto these foreign trucks, Sweden's Volvo Group then has a much more viable means of selling their foreign vehicles to our nation's armed forces.

Another missed opportunity. The Army's Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles, originally built by BAE Systems and currently being built by Oshkosh, are based on the Austrian Steyr design. How hard would it have been for Mack Defense to offer a license-built version of the Renault or Volvo military trucks?

I am have some friends in the ADF; I will have to ask them their thoughts on the Macks. MAN won a big contract with the British Army several years ago, and New Zealand is looking at MAN.

Volvo obtained a fixed-price with economic-price-adjustment/indefinite-delivery contract. They did not win a bid (tender) to sell vehicles. A supplier must have obtained this contract in order for the U.S. military to be able to purchase from you, should they decide to do so.

To get in the game, it was necessary for foreign truckmaker Volvo Group to successfully create a shell company in the U.S. that would allow them to sell vehicles to America's military. This is the purpose of the Mack Defense unit (http://www.mackdefense.com/) of Volvo Group Trucks Sales & Marketing Americas.

The entire range of tactical vehicles is from Renault Trucks Defense (http://www.renault-trucks-defense.com/en/range/), now a wholly owned Volvo Group subsidiary (since December 2012).

The U.S. Department of Defense would never walk away from Oshkosh, Navistar or other American suppliers to purchase French military vehicles from a Swedish truckmaker. But with the creation of a shell company called Mack Defense LLC (Limited Liability Company), and the installation of Mack logos onto these foreign trucks, Sweden's Volvo Group then has a much more viable means of selling their foreign vehicles to our nation's armed forces.

The remaining product line-up are just ordinary Mack-badged Volvo civilian commercial trucks (Volvo North American chassis with legacy Mack cabs) sprayed with your choice of beige or olive drab paint (MILCOTS - military commercial off the shelf).

When Mack Trucks was in business, we actually designed and produced purpose-built military vehicles including the NM, NO, NR, M123, M125 and last but not least, the RM-6866RS of the ADF (Australian Defense Force).

http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/15604-mack-military-truck/page-2

http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/15604-mack-military-truck/page-6

Back in October 2011 I was at the Association of the United States Army (AUSA) annual conference. They had a huge exhibit area, and Mack was one of the exhibitors, selling the militarized Granite. I mentioned the Australian military Macks to one of their reps, and asked him why didn't Mack sell them to the US military. He didn't know they existed.

Edited for sloppy writing and posting.

I read somewhere that MAN of Germany and Scania have some relationship. Can anyone shed some light?

Thanks.

I saw parts of it. It was very good. It may be on PBS' website.

Welcome Dagotwit!

I once dated a dago twit.

I have no doubt that all of the women who dated me will say the same thing. Thank you all for the warm welcome.

I just came across your site and I had to join! I am from the coal region of Northeastern PA, and I became a Mack fan at age 11. Still love those big rigs, and I miss the fire engines. Congratulations on a terrific site.