Thaeusler

Anyone know if they got this truck back in service yet? I found a CF Cab from refurbed truck that is available, contact Firemack if this CF Cab is still needed for details.

Firemack

Did you try interstate mack in hagerstown? they build cabs,and I believe refurbed ones also. Maybe try to get ahold of les McClure from harrisburg fire. He is retired ,but he knows where to get parts for old cf's. after all he kept HFD rigs running forever. Maybe SWAb up in E-ville can do something with her?

I am not sure if the Company has the truck back yet or not. I don't live in the area and I haven't heard from any of the members lately. Maybe I will give them a call and see whats up. Thanks for the help.

PETE,

You are right. KAT bought several black CH's with sleepers in 1990. I know first hand. My company bought 10 of them, used of course, with 400,000 miles on them. Company is phasing out all R models and CH's and going with 2007 Volvo, they have the best warranty for the amount of mileage we do. New motor at 500,000 miles, how can you beat that!?

I have a photo of my black CH in my pictures section. But, I still miss my R model. I really did'nt care if the roof was rotted out, I like convertibles,lol

How well I remember the KAT orders. I would bet if you were to begin sanding the paint off your truck you would find up to 10 coats of paint on it. We repainted, and repainted, and repainted almost everyone of their trucks. That was the one thing KAT worried about was the paint. We were told that KAT didn't care how often the truck broke down, the important thing was that when it did break down it was the best looking thing sitting on the side of the road. back in the 90's and 80's we couldn't get the paint to flow the way we wanted it too, and all the trucks were having Orange peel problems. It wasn't the paint but the Government regulations that caused the problems. It took years and years to get it right. In fact Mack replace all their Paint Robots to finally get the paint looking decent. Very Expensive.

I received this in an email and thought a few of you Fire Truck Collector/restorers would like to see it.

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/photos/firetruck_graveyard/

Click on enter gallery on first page

Look on the bright side. All the Macks are out hauling freight and all the Volvo's are sitting there on the Lot wishing they could be out running with the big Dogs.

Although the truck is a beauty. I wouldn't read too much into the 1 of 1 on the build sheet. All that 1 of 1 means is that this particular customer only ordered 1 truck. If the customer was somebody like UPS or one of the other fleets it may be 1 of 3000, or even 2000 of 3000.

That old Mack Bull Dog is one tough Dog. Renault and Now Volvo have tried their best to Put him to sleep, but the tough old Bull Dog ain't having no parts of it. I don't know how much longer he can hang on, but, I for one, wish he gets his chance, one day, to bite them all on the ass.

I don't think your truck came with the detroit in it from the factory. Does the spec sheet call for it to have a detroit? The reason I ask is because of the Gold Bulldog on the hood. I am pretty sure that Gold Bull Dogs only went on trucks that were all Mack. Pedigree is the word the company used. Meaning it had a Mack engine, and transmission. I could be wrong about that because the CL was available with other Manufacturer's engines, But would have had a silver dog and silver stand for the bull dog. Getting a Gold aftermarket bulldog would be no problem. It is a good looking truck though. If the price is right go for it.

I could tell you a lot more, but I've already said too much. I don't know who they outsourced their engine parts work too. I thought you were referring to the UAW at Mack when you were talking about sabotaging. I'm not saying that it never happened because I don't know if it did or not. If it did we were never told about it.

I know when I started at Mack a lot of the employees in the Union and Management were talking about the cost of building the engine almost 150 miles from the plants that were using them, and then shipping them in. Like you said Hanson thought it was a mistake and then Curcio comes along and builds another State of the Art Mack Trucks assembly Facility in Winnsboro, South Carolina. Now the Engines are 500 Miles from the assembly line. If the first decision was wrong building the engines 150 miles from the plant, then this one was =====. I'm not even going there. I believe there were 8 engines to a trailer coming from Hagerstown, to winnsboro, and at one point we were building 120 trucks per day. thats 15 tractor trailer loads making a 1000 mile round trip each day. How much do you think that tacked onto the price of the truck. Then we had the Mack transmissions being shipped in also. In my opinion, anyone in Management who voted for that move should have been fired.

I don't want you to think I was attacking you over the Union sabotage remark. Being a Union member, and former employee of Mack. I couldn't just sit back and let that statement go. I'm sure If I made the same remark about your employees sabotaging your work, they would defend your company and their Union also. Been good talking with you. and Keep on Truckin. With Mack that is.

It sure would be great to hear Jack Curcio's version of all of this. As he was the CEO of Mack at the time. First CH showed up on the 1989 calendar. The State of PA basically told Mack to go pound sand for any incentives to build the new plant in the Allentown area and the union was not any help either. In fact it was alot of union sabatoge through vendors supplying parts to Mack that nearly broke them. But in the end of it all I have a 94 CH 400HP Mack 18spd and mack rears..........1,100,000 miles and only the turbo and fuel pump as major parts replaced. Tranny whines a little and the rears are getting sloppy but that is a lot of miles.

And it still is a comfortable truck to drive. I am waiting on the new look for the MP engines to come out and I probably will buy another Mack. The Rawhide has caught my attention but I want to see the new truck for the big power. Mack people are still involved in the brand but with the way competition is and the new high tech world we live in it is very difficult for a company to be able to perform it's own research and development for a complete drive train like Mack has offered. You do see all of the other brands now marketing the concept that Mack has offered since it's beginning but they have the financial backing that Mack needed with Volvo. Do any of you remember that the great Zenon Hansen tried hard to broker a deal with Chrysler to own Mack but at that time the FTC denied the merger. How times have changed.....now the FTC accepts even our national security to be at the hands of foreign firms.

I doubt very seriously if you will ever hear Jack Curcio's story. I'll give you my view of Jack. He almost put Mack under trying to look like a hero, by breaking the Union. He failed, and the reason he failed is because He treated the people that transferred to Winnsboro like dirt. They treated the transferees as they called us like animals. They lied to the people of South Carolina about us. They might have won the Union battle if they weren't so screwed up in their treatment of us. We succeeded by telling the Carolinian workers to watch they way the company treated us, the transferees, and, the way we were being treated is exactly the way the company would be treating them a few years down the road. Those people were promised $13.00 and hour to start, and when we won the right, because of our Union Contract, to transfer to that plant, the company reduced the starting rate to $7.00 an hour, and started hiring anyone they thought could be brainwashed into voting against the Union. Some of the people didn't have a clue about hand tools or parts. They had people walking around the plant holding clipboards looking for nuts and bolts, and when you asked them what they were looking for, they would look at you kind of stupid, pull out a bolt and say One of these, just like this one, only longer. enough about that.

You stated that the state of Pennsylvania told mack to go pound sand. I don't think that is quite the way it went down. Mack originally asked the state to lower their emission standards for the paint department, and Pennsylvania refused to lower their standards. I don't believe Pennsylvania refused to give them incentives, and I know for a fact that the Union did everything in their power to keep the plant in Pa.

I don't know of any Union Sabotage through vendors or otherwise that took place. Almost all of the suppliers to the Winnsboro facility were in the South and were Not Unionized. The Frames came from Lugoff South Carolina, built by Dana in a non Union Plant. The fuel tanks, air tanks were made in South Carollina in non union plants. The wiring Harnesses were from Mexico, so You know they weren't Union made. Maybe you could give us a few examples. I know everytime something happened on the assembly line, mack told the carolinians that we were sabotaging the line. They could never prove it, It always turned out that it was something that they mis-engineered, such as the turns on the lines not running at the same speed as the line itself, and causing the gears to jamb. The Company also took two seats and put them at the entrance to the plant saying that someone poked holes in them. Funny thing was the seats that were there were old, dirty, and not even used in the CH, or R models. Even the Carolinians caught onto that one.

Do you remember when Mack made almost all of their own parts? Do you know what happened there. I had just started in the Machine Shop at Mack, when Crucio asked the union to take a pay cut or they were going to out source all the parts. The Union membership agreed to the pay cuts, and what did Curcio do. He shut down all the Machine and fabricating shops in Allentown and outsourced all that work. Now a lot of you fellows can't get the parts for your older trucks that could have been easily accesible and made right in our own shops.

By the way, The main reason i believe you will never hear Jack Curcio's story is because after he failed to keep the union out, and cost the corporation Hundreds of millions of dollars the Board of Directors fired him. The winnsboro plant was dedicated to him, and after the firing his picture and the plaque dedicating the plant to him was removed from the plant altogether. What does that tell you?

As far as Zenon Hansen goes. I never met him, but I have never heard anything but good about him. From what i heard through all my years at Mack Trucks, Everyone, and I mean Everyone loved Zenon. They tell me that Mack Trucks Was his Life. I wish I had met him.

Just so you know Mack Daddy, that 94 Mack that you are so happy with and proud to own, was Union made in Winnsboro, South Carolina.

Thanks for sharing with us a first hand account of what went down at Winnsboro. IIRC, Mack tried to bust the union by moving production to Winnsboro, but the union went to court and won back those jobs... but they had to move to Winnsboro to keep them. Please share with us more of the story of Winnsboro, especially the human side of the story that we too seldom hear.

I had put that in my story, but as you can see i edited out. I didn't want to come down to hard on the company that i worked with for 26 years. I could have taken my 30 and out on March 4 of this year. I took early retirement in 2002 when they saw fit to build a Mack truck in a Volvo factory. If I seem a little bitter I am. Not so much with Mack as Volvo. I really do believe they are trying to put the Mack brand to sleep. They are having a hard time, but they sure are trying. I would love to tell you the whole story about what took place down there, but I really don't like to talk about it because it brings back a lot of bad memories, and, most people wouldn't believe it. Every single day in that plant was a nightmare until we got the union in. The Union is what really straightend out the plant, not the company. I may be bitter but I still Love Mack Trucks.

89 was the first year for the CH model. they gave my grandfather the choice of the R or the CH. He chose the R cause he had 23 R's at the time.

I sure thought they were ugly at the time.

I worked for Mack at the time and transferred to Winnsboro, From Macungie. The very First truck off the assembly line was in September 1987, It was a Big Red One, to quote The Companies Spokesperson. They were a mess coming off the line. They had only one steering wheel and had to keep taking back to the line drop off. None of them started, they were all towed. They filled up several lots in the winnsboro area, before they got their act together. I know they built a couple hundred in 87 almost all of those were painted mack white. I think it was around mid november of 87 before the second Mack red truck came down the line. It was so screwed up at the time that the newspapers picked up on all the trucks sunk in mud in the fields, and made headlines to the effect that Mack has figured out a new way to build trucks. They are planting them. That plant went from The worst in effeciency to the best in the world and what did mack do. They closed it. The sooner Volvo sells them off the better it will be for everyone. Workers and customers. I thought it was the pits when Renault owned it, but when Volvo took over it really went to Hell. Just my opinion.

Thanks,Barry;

I'm waiting for the current owner to find his papers on the truck so he can email the VIN,and answer a couple of questions I have about chassis length and whether this truck has a tachometer. Once I have the VIN,I'll do as you suggested and contact the Mack Museum to learn more about the truck.

Would this be one of the "Jr" Macks?

By the way-in my intro message I told of plans to trade my '62 Chevy for the Mack;another possibility has presented itself,I'm selling my motorcycle (1968 Triumph TR6-R) to another friend for enough to buy the Mack and cover the basics to get it roadable. So it looks like I'll be able to keep my little truck too.

Just out of curiosity,what sort of options would there be regarding re-powering this truck if the engine isn't useable? do you know if there are bellhousing adapters available to fit the transmission to a newer or different engine? I fully intend to run it pretty much as is,mechanically,but I won't give up on the truck if the engine is bad.

Speed

Talk to me a little bit about the 62 Chevy. Thanks

Thanks,Barry;

I'm waiting for the current owner to find his papers on the truck so he can email the VIN,and answer a couple of questions I have about chassis length and whether this truck has a tachometer. Once I have the VIN,I'll do as you suggested and contact the Mack Museum to learn more about the truck.

Would this be one of the "Jr" Macks?

By the way-in my intro message I told of plans to trade my '62 Chevy for the Mack;another possibility has presented itself,I'm selling my motorcycle (1968 Triumph TR6-R) to another friend for enough to buy the Mack and cover the basics to get it roadable. So it looks like I'll be able to keep my little truck too.

Just out of curiosity,what sort of options would there be regarding re-powering this truck if the engine isn't useable? do you know if there are bellhousing adapters available to fit the transmission to a newer or different engine? I fully intend to run it pretty much as is,mechanically,but I won't give up on the truck if the engine is bad.

Speed

Talk to me a little bit about the 62 Chevy. Thanks

No, there were no serious injuries. just the expected bumps and bruises.

Thanks alot. I am always on ebay, and never thought about looking for Fire Apparatus or Fire Parts there. Thanks again.

Just south of Pottsville Pa. In Schuylkill county. I am a former fire chief (Retired) from the fire company and also retired after 25 years with Mack Trucks in allentown, Macungie, and Winnsboro. Thanks for your help

Most important thing is hopefully no one was seriously hurt.

No, there were no serious injuries. just the expected bumps and bruises.

I don't know if these will help,but they are out there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...9674&rd=1,1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1976-MACK-C...1QQcmdZViewItem

Some fire department's will go the extra mile if they find it is to help a department in need.

Good Luck.

Thanks alot. I am always on ebay, and never thought about looking for Fire Apparatus or Fire Parts there. Thanks again.