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Chinese truck journalists introduce Mack 2-stick transmissions


kscarbel2
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Are they gonna start making B model replicas in China? Lol! Phase 1,there are American "truckers" who can't drive a standard shift! Car or truck! My cousin used to haul coal in the late 70s when there were a few owner operators running B and R models with compounds and one of them told him that when the dad's were teaching their sons to split they sat in the passenger seat with their "tire thumper" and every time the kid started to use the clutch the old man would rap him on the knee! Quick way to learn! KSB is there a video of this? Are they actually driving it? Would be hilarious! ! "Like a fire in a Chinese laundry"

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37 minutes ago, macks in nigeria said:

Those who long for R model Macks coming back should watch out,this might be the start of their prayers been answered albeit Chinese style.

Actually, the latest Chinese heavy trucks, those coming out in 2018-2019, are virtually on par with the latest global market trucks.

Underestimating that ability of their leading truckmakers would be a mistake on anyone's part.

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For the major Truck manufacturers that are in joint ventures with the global heavyweights like Iveco,Mercedes benz and Ford that could be said for them but the bulk of the market for now is held by the Local Chinese brands like Howo,Shacman,Dongfeng and any name they choose to call it they still practice Relevant and basic copy technology.Infact there is a blasphemous joke about a Chinese artisan asked if he knew Jesus Christ, he replied no but promptly added if you show me sample I can copy it.

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31 minutes ago, macks in nigeria said:

For the major Truck manufacturers that are in joint ventures with the global heavyweights like Iveco,Mercedes benz and Ford that could be said for them but the bulk of the market for now is held by the Local Chinese brands like Howo,Shacman,Dongfeng and any name they choose to call it they still practice Relevant and basic copy technology.Infact there is a blasphemous joke about a Chinese artisan if he knew Jesus Christ, he replied no but promptly added if you show me I can copy it.

Actually just the opposite is true in many cases.

Hongyan has not leaped ahead with the Iveco joint venture.

Foton is in gridlock with Daimler.

Dongfeng is in gridlock with Volvo.

FAW's commercial truck unit is leaping ahead on their own without any foreign partner.

Sinotruk (aka. CNHTC - China National Heavy Truck Corp.) has developed well under their second JV with MAN. (Howo is just one of their brands, not the company name).

Shacman (better known as Shaanxi Auto Group) has seen mixed results since the end of their MAN JV.

They are no longer practicing "basic copy technology" as you put it. Assuming so would disconnect you from the reality.

They are self-designing, and using Italian design studios (like European truckmakers), as well as global contract engineering firms (e.g. AVL and Ricardo) like the global car and truckmakers do.

My market research photographs are corporate confidential. This one (below) of the upcoming FAW "J7" is from the internet. The J7 is not a copy of anything.

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image 1.jpg

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7 hours ago, BillyT said:

My cousin used to haul coal in the late 70s when there were a few owner operators running B and R models with compounds and one of them told him that when the dad's were teaching their sons to split they sat in the passenger seat with their "tire thumper" and every time the kid started to use the clutch the old man would rap him on the knee! Quick way to learn!

HA!  When l was learning to drive without the clutch. The guy showing me would lean over the doghouse of the COE International. And punch me in the shoulder if he saw my left foot move for the clutch. Ah yes, remember him well. Eddie Armstrong if you see this......Thank you    ................Hippy

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2 hours ago, macks in nigeria said:

For the major Truck manufacturers that are in joint ventures with the global heavyweights like Iveco,Mercedes benz and Ford that could be said for them but the bulk of the market for now is held by the Local Chinese brands like Howo,Shacman,Dongfeng and any name they choose to call it they still practice Relevant and basic copy technology.Infact there is a blasphemous joke about a Chinese artisan if he knew Jesus Christ, he replied no but promptly added if you show me I can copy it.

The Chinese over the years have shown little regard for intellectual property rights and have shamelessly and sometimes comically copied the designs of reputable brands. Not sure if this policy is still in effect, but many if not all foreign competitors can't produce products in China unless the facility is a joint venture with at least 51% Chinese ownership.

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1 hour ago, Jamaican Bulldog said:

The Chinese over the years have shown little regard for intellectual property rights and have shamelessly and sometimes comically copied the designs of reputable brands. Not sure if this policy is still in effect, but many if not all foreign competitors can't produce products in China unless the facility is a joint venture with at least 51% Chinese ownership.

The Germans (Karl Benz) invented the automobile, and the rest of the world copied them. The Chinese didn't invent the copying thing. Enamored with Scania's much admired modular design concept, all the world's truckmakers are continually trying to copy us.

Foreign companies, in the auto-truck industry, are required to joint venture, and the foreign company is not allowed to own more than 50 percent of the JV, all so that the country benefits mutually with the foreign aggressor. I call that smart.

In the US, foreign aggressors have taken over numerous industries. Without policies adequately protective of US industry, we are a far cry from the solid and powerful position we were once in, and a frail economy is the result.

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1 hour ago, Jamaican Bulldog said:

The Chinese over the years have shown little regard for intellectual property rights and have shamelessly and sometimes comically copied the designs of reputable brands. Not sure if this policy is still in effect, but many if not all foreign competitors can't produce products in China unless the facility is a joint venture with at least 51% Chinese ownership.

Military hardware, the Chinese copy much from the U.S. ,Germany and Russia and freely admit they follow Chinese military strategist Sun Tzu 's book "The Art of War" written in the 5th century BC. One of the 13 chapters is devoted to how you allow your enemy to spent the time and cost of developing a new weapon and copy it with improvements for  your usage. But the Russia PAC-FA and the Chinese J20 both us copies of our stealth tech. Chinese  ZTZ 99A MBT is the best of the Abrams, Russias T90 and Germany's Leopard with a similar silhouette and main gun. As for must other current consumer products China now actually produces high quality items 80% of the time. Comparable to ours and the EU's. Sadly some  are of higher quality. 

Cyber espionage is a fact of life because companies do not take appropriate steps to halt it, both here and China are lax is security.The channels for some of it is scary. Before the F-22 prototype was shown, A model company in China had a 95% accurate model kit on the shelves world wide. Same thing happened with Russia's Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA stealth fighter by and other Chinese model company, a year before it was made public.

   

  

"OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK"  Thomas Edison

 “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’

P.T.CHESHIRE

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China has a great new F-16 like aircraft. They didn't copy. They bought the technology......from Israel.

Background: General Dynamics developed a next generation F-16 II. The U.S. Air Force declined to buy it. Our employees in Washington agreed to allow Israel to produce it for themselves. It was called the Lavi program, and the U.S. taxpayer funded it (why we'll never know).

The clincher: Israel didn’t build it, but secretly sold the design information to...........China.

And today, the Chengdu (Jian) J-10 fighter is our adversary over the South China Sea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:J-10a_zhas.png), flying American technology.

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There is no denying that China is now an technological giant with their advances in railways,ship construction,and everything hi-tech.China also still engages in barefaced theft of intellectual property partly because they are now the workshop to the world.I have seen Chinese cars that from 10 metres away you assume they are Mercedes sedans until you get close and discover they are Chinese clones with model names like XY45.TS7653K, to the i phones that are identical to the original except what is inside  them.Nothing wrong in basing your diesel on the original Karl Benz design but also spend your money and ,burn the midnight oil in improving it ,that is why there are engines that still go strong 50 years later while some can not even make their own warranty period.

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I have little knowledge of Chinese trucks, but I like the looks of that Cabover😁 little wonder they are the "workshop of the world" With virtually no environmental regulations and an exploited workforce who live on subsistence wages they will continue to be! We can't compete with their production costs, and as long as corporate greed controls the marketplace and probably always will, why would we try!

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14 hours ago, macks in nigeria said:

There is no denying that China is now an technological giant with their advances in railways,ship construction,and everything hi-tech.China also still engages in barefaced theft of intellectual property partly because they are now the workshop to the world.I have seen Chinese cars that from 10 metres away you assume they are Mercedes sedans until you get close and discover they are Chinese clones with model names like XY45.TS7653K, to the i phones that are identical to the original except what is inside  them.Nothing wrong in basing your diesel on the original Karl Benz design but also spend your money and ,burn the midnight oil in improving it ,that is why there are engines that still go strong 50 years later while some can not even make their own warranty period.

One carmaker copied the A-class. Another copied the old BMW X5. The latest, one copied the Evoque. But none of these are mainstream big sellers.

Look at the SUVs, for example, from Great Wall, Changan, BYD and Guangqi. None are copies, and all are superb. 

Korea's SSangyong had one, the "Chairman", but it was built under license from M-B. They also built M-B SK series trucks under license as the SY range.

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10 hours ago, BillyT said:

I have little knowledge of Chinese trucks, but I like the looks of that Cabover😁 little wonder they are the "workshop of the world" With virtually no environmental regulations and an exploited workforce who live on subsistence wages they will continue to be! We can't compete with their production costs, and as long as corporate greed controls the marketplace and probably always will, why would we try!

With Scania, I can tell you that China today has strict environmental regulations Billy. The government is "now" spending massive amounts of money on clean energy.

That truck above will be in the last generation of diesel trucks. The next will be electric or other.

https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51557-norfolk-southern-sues-over-millions-of-rail-ties-it-calls-defective/?tab=comments#comment-384148

 

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14 hours ago, BillyT said:

Seen any Buick Envisions on the road lately?!

 2017 and up CAdillac CT hybred

http://www.businessinsider.com/cadillac-ct6-china-hybrid-2016-11

cadillac-ct6-plug-in-hybrid.jpg.de1d0b47cab2bede08d4d4e2b220c4e8.jpg

 

3 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

With Scania, I can tell you that China today has strict environmental regulations Billy. The government is "now" spending massive amounts of money on clean energy.

That truck above will be in the last generation of diesel trucks. The next will be electric or other.

https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51557-norfolk-southern-sues-over-millions-of-rail-ties-it-calls-defective/?tab=comments#comment-384148

 

Correct China's EPA Regs are based on the EU rules and enforced in the highly urbanized areas. 

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"OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK"  Thomas Edison

 “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’

P.T.CHESHIRE

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Kind of an interesting parallel here. Before WWII we thought the Japanese were only able to copy things and had no skills to design and produce advanced items. We are have been made the same assumptions mainly about China, Mexico and India. Now it has come back ten fold to bite us in the butt.

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"OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK"  Thomas Edison

 “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’

P.T.CHESHIRE

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41, my.grandfather born in 1889 used to say the Japanese were great "copiers" now it's the Chinese! I remember when the Japanese Datsuns had great powertrains but scrap bodies,now the whole thing is bulletproof! Cadillac huh? Predictable! And the average American could care less!

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On 12/9/2017 at 9:05 PM, 41chevy said:

Kind of an interesting parallel here. Before WWII we thought the Japanese were only able to copy things and had no skills to design and produce advanced items. We are have been made the same assumptions mainly about China, Mexico and India. Now it has come back ten fold to bite us in the butt.

this is the guy who brought Japanese production up to what it is today, part of MacArthur's team after ww2 he created what we term today as the "quality system" in production....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

BC Mack

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ksb I'm glad China has "seen the light" environmentally, but I suspect it has more to do with global image than concern for their citizens welfare! I spoke too soon about the envision, a lady at my grand children's school has one! I'll bet she doesn't know where it was built!

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