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wrenching4life

Stainless E9 injection lines, failing

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Hey all another E9 question that has me puzzled, is anyone using oversized stainless steel injection lines on their E9? If so what injection pump do you have, and have you ever had an issue with them? I'm curious

thanks all!

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I have 120's from Columbus diesel , one piece lines . no issues . Ambac v pump 13mm plungers. When i first putt them on thought i had problem sealing in inj but turned out i had oring in wrong grove

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I run .093 SS lines on my inline pump with no problems. Lines typically crack from poor clamps/insulators. Be careful not to overtorque the lines.

Very clean looks great!

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3 hours ago, BGarofalo said:

I run .093 SS lines on my inline pump with no problems. Lines typically crack from poor clamps/insulators. Be careful not to overtorque the lines.

Very clean looks great!

I have custom set of 120 lines on my 866. They had to be made as there is no more factory ones left and that was 20 years ago. The lines on an 866  are the same on both ends and I did have one line leak at an injector. The line cracked inside the flair and it was because of over torquing the nut and twisted the line just enough to stress crack it over time. Took it off and Tig welded it all around the flair and no more leak with lower nut torque, just enough to get it to seal. 

Clean looking engine!! nice work! 

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On 10/11/2017 at 7:14 PM, wrenching4life said:

Back In Black Pulling,

I have the same lines as you and I keep having a problem with the lines splitting right at the flair at the injection pump. Francis engineering tweaked my ambac pump and I have injectors done by them as well. I bent  my lines the same as the OE Mack and ran them  in the factory holders/clamps. Perhaps I'm just having just poor luck, have you removed your lines and re installed them at all? I cracked the third line in less than a year (less than 4K miles) on my way home from Gerharts

P.S. That was one heck of a launch at Gerharts this past weekend! Your truck is very impressive! 

IMG_4709.PNG

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Is it strange to want to kiss an engine?

Edited by Mack Technician

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Had mine off many times no problems . Agree with over torquing. Some times i will use crowsfoot and torque to 35lbs other wise pull snug and give it a little bump.

Wish mine was that clean looks nice

Edited by Back In Black Pulling

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Back In Black Pulling: the factory spec is: 

nut at injection pump: 25ft lbs

Clamp screw  at cyl head: 35ft lbs

nut on clamp screw: 15ft lbs

are these the specs you follow? Or close to?

These are the specs iv been torquing them to.

 

 

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Unfortunately I don't, I wish I did I think there is a lot more to work with, for instance my gross weight is 130 with a big machine on the lowbed and the highest I can get the pyrometers is 800-900°

as far as the fuel lines go iv had 2 fail and replaced them, Columbus diesel and myself talked it out and determined that it may have been bad flares so he replaced the other 6.( I just had to send him the tube nuts off the old lines) I get them back, bend them up just like factory sand them and them polish. I re installed the new 6. I fire the truck and now the first one I replaced months ago is leaking at the injection pump like shooting out like a sprinkler. This is exactly what they all have done they seem to crack right at the flare at the injection pump. I don't know what else I can do, the fit an thread in perfectly, I don't have to force anything. 

Any thoughts I'm running out of ideas and sanity 

Thanks all

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When i first got the 13 mm plungers had problems cracking barrels  with the factory lines and industrial inj .

Had it out with columbus he desided  that inj and lines were to small thats when i got the Stainless lines and dual feed injs . also opened up needle lift in them.

You know what size injs and witch style?

Edited by Back In Black Pulling

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Francis Engineering "built" my injectors, I know on the outside there a Bosch body. I also know that when I was having the "tick" sound in the #8 injector I pulled and sent the injector to Columbus diesel because I did not get any response from Francis Eng., I then sent the injector to Dan Magers at Columbus diesel and he said they had not seen valve tips like the ones I had. And was not able to repair it due to the fact he would have to try to source the part. 

I remember Dale telling me when I was ordering them that they were something like a Bosch body and ambac internals  

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Could try factory lines to see if they break or may open needle lift to re leave some pressure . Have a set of bosch needle lift was 15 thou and ambacs in my truck now were at 20 thou opened them up another 30 thou

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Well Columbus diesel is standing behind there product once again, there going to make me up 2 more lines. So I guess we will see how these ones go

back in black, where do you adjust the needle lift your talking about? Is that within the injector?

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Could be an injector that hypermax has modified since Dale gets a lot of stuff done there.  I bought a set that is way to big that had bosch dual fed bodies with hypermax tips

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Yes if you take the nozzle of the body there is needle inside the nozzle that comes up against the stop plate. would have to figure out how much it moves now then cut off how ever much more you want it to move . you dont want to cut the little nipple that go threw the plate that will change the spring pressure. 

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I talked to Columbus diesel, Dan Magers and he says the factory torque spec is fine and can not explain why this is happening. I'm waiting my the last two lines and they will all be brand new, he also said that I may have to put an extra mounting clamp up by the pump where they are breaking, anyone done that? Anyone have pictures of how they routed there's? 

Thanks all!

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Maybe make some plates that sandwich on both sides of the lines at the pump. It should help keep the vibration down. Some pulling guys do this on their inline pumps. 

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On 10/27/2017 at 7:34 AM, wrenching4life said:

I talked to Columbus diesel, Dan Magers and he says the factory torque spec is fine and can not explain why this is happening. I'm waiting my the last two lines and they will all be brand new, he also said that I may have to put an extra mounting clamp up by the pump where they are breaking, anyone done that? Anyone have pictures of how they routed there's? 

Thanks all!

I was thinking about this issue and it seems that all your failures are at the pump flares/ nuts. Some stainless will work harden and if the flares are mechanically flared the amount of "working the metal" stress can cause cracks that open over time with the constant pounding of pressure from the pump. Stainless sure looks nice but hydraulic seamless steel lines may work better, a little softer and more malleable. 

Another option is weld on the flares and draw it back by slow cooling it. Then when the lines are still straight turn the flare angle on a lathe. I did this with the set on my 866. I did have one line leak, over time, because there was porosity in one weld, rewelded around line and no more leak. 

Can you have someone Tig weld around the leaking line and sleeve just past the nut to seal the line?

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Well finally got the last two lines bent, polished and mounted, guess what now I have two lines leaking past the threads at the head! One on each side of the engine, I can't win. Does anyone else make oversized lines? 

I doubt they could be welded up, there is not much room for a weld in there the way that they make them 

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If your leaking at the threads then it may just be return fuel.  I have Scheid make all my lines for various trucks. They always fit well.

I install the lines in sequence with tightening injectors. Especially if you have a new injector or a new line. By sequence I mean: 1. remove injector hold down cap and then re-install snug 2. install your line and snug your line nut to half torque 3. torque the injector cap 4. torque your line.  Its the same procedure for any connector tube style injector.   

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Back in black,

Where did you get 13mm plungers and barrels if you don’t mind me asking?

 

Thanks

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I have run CDS lines and not had a lick of trouble.  Wimers in Sandy Lake, PA makes lines.  Any pump shop should be able to make them you may have to send them an old line so they can reuse the fuel pencil that goes into the head.  On my inline pump we made two plates and put foam inside them to sturdy down the lines coming out of the top of the pump

 

5a0c582998db9_fuellines.GIF.5119783216312cf89cf7672a6e2a44c1.GIF

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