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We've all heard the complaining around gearhead internet forums, campfires, and garage gatherings- such and such is hoarding old bikes/cars/trucks/whatever. Or junking them, or negelecting them, or over restoring them. And the powers that be, municipal or scrappers, are sending them to the crusher, while accusing us gearheads of turning our backyards into scrapyards.

So what should our ethical standards be in collecting?

I've taken an inventory of my own collecting, both literal and "12 step", but it got kinda long, so I put it in my blog over at www.gearheadgrrrl.com

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My collector pile of vehicles all have collector insurance on them as in progress restorations and NYS historical tags. They are behind a fence and treeline. The insurance and tags remove them from the violation list. As for my other collections......my wife and kids say I'm a hoarder. :banana: Paul

“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’”

P.T.CHESHIRE

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What should our ethics, or standards, be?

Aside from the comic answers - and there will undoubtedly be at least a couple of those, this is a pretty interesting question. Especially as the hobby of gathering and restoring old, heavy trucks gains traction.

The automobile guys have several associations that set standards and judge vehicles to those standards - such as the AACA. I'm not sure about the tractor guys - whether or not they judge to originality? Motorcycle collectors do.

But trucks are indeed very different. Normally built to do a unique job, trucks come in all sizes, and with all manner of equipment and modifications to perform that unique job. Many modifications are actually factory original to that particular truck. Add to that the fact that most heavy American trucks would outlast at least one owner, and the list of modifications keeps growing as the truck is asked to do a different job. Then factor in the truck operator - quite often a guy that has a need to personalize the vehicle with a wide assortment of accessories, and you have a vehicle that is a far cry from the way it left the factory.

So you can see the conundrum. With no original standard to judge from - how can we be held accountable for originality?

Enter guys like John McFarland. John loves the hunt and uncovering the history that a truck has. His vehicles are probably more representative of their original purpose than most.

Or guys like Matt Pfahl who will go to untold lengths to find or remanufacture exact duplicates of factory parts to build the museum quality vehicles that they specialize in.

Guys like David Strickland put together old trucks that are perhaps "over-restored" to some, but they are beautiful nonetheless. And those vehicles might be scrap if they hadn't been put back in service. Are those people wrong? Of course not. And neither is anyone else that is into truck collecting.

Truck collecting is all what you make it for yourself. Having a rusty old barely running B model Mack in your backyard is way more fun than you will ever have at an AACA Senior event. And we rarely wear ties to work on our trucks anyway. This is a very relaxed hobby.

Trucks represent the history and industrious spirit of our fathers and grandfathers. They are more a symbol of hard work and dedication rather than a symbol of perfection and show quality.

A truck that shows its' age with a bit of wear and soil is just as impressive as a perfect restoration. It's just a different approach.

So, you can see that standards would be tough, if not impossible to set.

Now for ethics -

Your mother taught you almost all you need to know.

Don't lie. Don't steal. Don't over-describe the truck to your prospective buyer. And, most important of all - Don't tell people "it ran when parked". They all did.

Just Have Fun,

Paul Van Scott

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Very well put Paul! i stopped doing the car show "thing" for many of the reasons you stated,it seems it was more about who had the original GM tower radiator hose clamps on their $50.000 trailer queen camaro then having fun!old truck shows are much different! you can "bring what ya'brung" and everone still treats you the same,be it a rusty B-model,or a complete factory restoration. Its been my experience that old truck owners are much more fourthcoming with" who did what"and seem to be more willing to help someone just starting out,ours is supposed to be a fun hobby,and i see a lot more good then bad at ATHS etc. functions,and they seem to be much more family oriented than similar events for other forms of transpotation,just my opinion anyway.................Mark

Mack Truck literate. Computer illiterate.

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"And, most important of all - Don't tell people "it ran when parked". They all did.

Just Have Fun,

Paul Van Scott"

I've found most people with trucks have the good traditional values of of honesty, integrity and willingness to help each other, much different from most car guys. Not including the AMC guys.

We dealt with a man in Utah that had a 1954 Mercury Sun Valley for sale, original owner. Sent photos to us via Email of the car.

We agreed on a price and drove out there from L.I. to purchase it and trailer it home. Turns out the photos were copies of when it was new...not as it sat in the north forty for 3o years...BUT it ran when I parked it there...still can laugh about that after 14 years though. Paul

“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’”

P.T.CHESHIRE

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"And, most important of all - Don't tell people "it ran when parked". They all did.

Just Have Fun,

Paul Van Scott"

I've found most people with trucks have the good traditional values of of honesty, integrity and willingness to help each other, much different from most car guys. Not including the AMC guys.

We dealt with a man in Utah that had a 1954 Mercury Sun Valley for sale, original owner. Sent photos to us via Email of the car.

We agreed on a price and drove out there from L.I. to purchase it and trailer it home. Turns out the photos were copies of when it was new...not as it sat in the north forty for 3o years...BUT it ran when I parked it there...still can laugh about that after 14 years though. Paul

think we all had a deal like that at one time.bob
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:SMOKIE-RT:

That's one of the things I like best about you guys and girls-honesty. With so much bad going on out there,I try really hard to surround myself with friends,contacts and co-conspirators who share my values and sense of honor,and what you say rings true. People who truly value old trucks and bikes just seem to be cut from a better bolt of cloth than usual;I've been on both sides of the honor and trust that lives in these fine people. It's not something we do-it's more something we ARE. And the :mack1: crowd is the best of the best as far as I'm concerned. :twothumbsup:

Speed

:SMOKIE-LFT:

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"Remember-ANY Gun Control is Unconstitutional!"
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i><b>MACK-E Model Registry # 36</b></i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

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One interesting point that the original poster makes is what to do with a rig you own, but will never get around to doing anything with. It is a constant source of frustration for me that an owner has no intention of ever doing anything with a rig, yet he/she will not part with it so someone can bring it back to life and show it off for the rest of us to enjoy.

Is it ethical to just let something rust out back or sit in a garage covered with 20 years of grime when someone makes a reasonable offer for the rig with the intention of fixing it up?

Money, sex, and fire; everybody thinks everyone else is getting more than they are!

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We all hope to get to that project some day. Just when will that day come? If you sell the truck, you sell the chance of one day getting to do it the way you had pictured in your head, or maybe it's like you are selling the memories connected to it. - Brad

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One interesting point that the original poster makes is what to do with a rig you own, but will never get around to doing anything with. It is a constant source of frustration for me that an owner has no intention of ever doing anything with a rig, yet he/she will not part with it so someone can bring it back to life and show it off for the rest of us to enjoy.

Is it ethical to just let something rust out back or sit in a garage covered with 20 years of grime when someone makes a reasonable offer for the rig with the intention of fixing it up?

Thats what I told the old guy about the old B-61 in the weeds he was beatin' the radiator out of for the copper, I told him I would hope he would rather see it fixed or parted to help another truck than to see this piece of hard working Americana sold to China and sent back to us as cheap junk; he agreed and is going to let me buy the complete truck.

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We all hope to get to that project some day. Just when will that day come? If you sell the truck, you sell the chance of one day getting to do it the way you had pictured in your head, or maybe it's like you are selling the memories connected to it. - Brad

I understand that, but what about the rig that's parked out back with trees growing through it and the owner still refuses to sell? I know of several pretty unique rigs that are parked and will never see the light of day until the owner passes on. In each case someone has made a fair offer for the rig and the owner has made it clear he will not sell no matter what.

I know that will never change, but since we are talking about those of us who are active collectors and restorers I think there should there be some obligation on our part to make sure everyone gets to enjoy a rig if we are clearly not going to get it repaired or out on the show circuit. Let it go and let someone else enjoy it!

Money, sex, and fire; everybody thinks everyone else is getting more than they are!

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Very well put Paul! i stopped doing the car show "thing" for many of the reasons you stated,it seems it was more about who had the original GM tower radiator hose clamps on their $50.000 trailer queen camaro then having fun!old truck shows are much different! you can "bring what ya'brung" and everone still treats you the same,be it a rusty B-model,or a complete factory restoration. Its been my experience that old truck owners are much more fourthcoming with" who did what"and seem to be more willing to help someone just starting out,ours is supposed to be a fun hobby,and i see a lot more good then bad at ATHS etc. functions,and they seem to be much more family oriented than similar events for other forms of transpotation,just my opinion anyway.................Mark

Trucks aint trailer queens and truck owners/drivers know that. They know that trucks are more than a vehicle, they are a tool and tools get dirty. Whether the truck is factory mint restored or a rust bucket that just made it to the show, it brings a smile to their face because under all the paint is a hard working machine that at one point earned a living for someone.

Lets face it cars really aren't tools, they are transportation and a status symbol. And that is what causes the over zealous car crowd to be so uptight, status. Trucks aren't status symbols, there isn't a million dollar Italian sports dump that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds. They are hard working machines that drivers spend half their life inside of and that is a bonding experience. That truck put a roof over their head and food on the table. The fancy car just sat in a garage and the owner tooled around in it to get looks from the ladies, big whoop.

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-Thad

What America needs is less bull and more Bulldog!

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Trucks aint trailer queens and truck owners/drivers know that. They know that trucks are more than a vehicle, they are a tool and tools get dirty. Whether the truck is factory mint restored or a rust bucket that just made it to the show, it brings a smile to their face because under all the paint is a hard working machine that at one point earned a living for someone.

Lets face it cars really aren't tools, they are transportation and a status symbol. And that is what causes the over zealous car crowd to be so uptight, status. Trucks aren't status symbols, there isn't a million dollar Italian sports dump that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds. They are hard working machines that drivers spend half their life inside of and that is a bonding experience. That truck put a roof over their head and food on the table. The fancy car just sat in a garage and the owner tooled around in it to get looks from the ladies, big whoop.

Well said Thad! i certainly agree!..................Mark

Mack Truck literate. Computer illiterate.

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A man has to decide if he is restoring to better than original or is he just enjoying tinkering in his spare time. Most of us who "play" with Mack trucks are enjoying the ownership and the joy of what we are doing. A case in point, the Iowa 80 1916 Mack is spectacular to the point of being afraid that it could get hurt(my opinion). Wonderful restoration. If it belonged to a regular Mack affectonado what do you do with it next? Hauling it around in an enclosed van and showing it off soon gets boring. getting dirty and tinkering is never boring. I am dure that some will criticize me for the way I am redoing my 1919 AC. it is 92 years old and survived nearly intact. My goal is to preserve what is there rather than destroy the patina that has made it through the years. I cannot believe the condition of the internal parts as I take them apart, clean them, and put them back together. It would be easier to replace them with newly made parts (cheaper too) but that would destroy what I percieve to be bragging rights. I can say that this truck is relatively unmolested and really original and 92 years young and it even runs. 98% of it is old, really old. It will not be perfect but I doubt that it never was. It was built to work and it should look like it, not like a toy truck. So, if it makes a person happy seeing it out back, that is part of the hobby and besides that is one's right! (I am oppinionated)

Edited by mack2000
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My 29 AC crane carrier will be a 100% resto including the crane unit because it worked hard for 40 years. It will never be perfect, ther is a few modern things hidden in the drive train to make it useable today, like rear disc brakes and a 12 volt alternator hidden in the Gen case, but I hope it will look as it did when it was a year or two old. I have a 2nd AC crane carrier for crane parts. Now as my '29 gets sections completed, the parts truck spares are sold to other AC restorers. The majority of vehicles in my yard I saved from scrap and will go to others. I'll save it till it finds a good home.

AS for using them, thats what they were made for. I restored my 41 Chevy convert to stock and drove it on rte 66 to Cali and back home. Took it to Charletteville Va, and drove to the PA turnpike 50th anniversary. Questions asked were "what if it gets hit?" I Fix it! The cars still worth the same after its fixed. The best was "What if it gets dirty?" I clean the it. The person I sold it to drove it once I think...shame on him!

My 55 chevy was my fathers D gasser til 1971, I raced it till 1985 on the track and the street. I still use it almost every day as long as it isn't wet. Most fun is the statement "do you know how much its worth?" I usually tell them "yeah, $900 just what I paid for it in 1972." Drives them nuts.

Point is no vehicle car,truck or bike was designed to sit in a garage and not be used.

“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’”

P.T.CHESHIRE

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