1983 Dm4929 With 3208 Cat

[Mackpro]

Our local fire dept got a USAF jet fuel tanker and converted it into a water tanker. Its a DM4929 last of vin is 002612 and has a 3208 cat with the muffler mounted under the front bumper. Will try to post some pics when we get done with repairs.

[Rob]

Our local fire dept got a USAF jet fuel tanker and converted it into a water tanker. Its a DM4929 last of vin is 002612 and has a 3208 cat with the muffler mounted under the front bumper. Will try to post some pics when we get done with repairs.

I have a standing order for the one located at Peoria when it is retired. Runs like a top at all of about 38mph!! It is a helicopter fueler.

Rob

[1958 F.W.D.]

With all the availability of different funding and state and federal grants nowadays, why would you guys even consider converting a fuel tanker to a water tanker? I dont mean to sound like....well....an asshole, but that is just so 1960's....... so so many converted tankers that I know of have ended up on their sides at street intersections or in ditches on country roads.

[David]

With all the availability of different funding and state and federal grants nowadays, why would you guys even consider converting a fuel tanker to a water tanker? I dont mean to sound like....well....an asshole, but that is just so 1960's....... so so many converted tankers that I know of have ended up on their sides at street intersections or in ditches on country roads.

That's a classic. Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

[1958 F.W.D.]

Been a career/volunteer firefighter for 22+ years. I hold IFSAC/Pro-Board Certifications to drive everything with a red light/siren and wheels, including ARFF vehicles. Have worked on several military installations (including a large-frame airfield) as a federal firefighter. I like to think I have the experience to back those pieces of paper up.

The USAF Fuel Tankers are only baffled for "X" amount of fuel (Not sure what the USAF uses but in this case lets say Jet-A which is 6.75lbs per gallon on a ISA (International Standard Atmosphere) day; and only for on a nice, flat and leve airport surface at 35-38 miles per hour, which most of them rarely see.

Again, not sure what the tank capacity is, in this case lets say 5000 gallons. 5K of Jet-A weighs 33750.

5K of water (at 8.3lbs per gallon) weighs 41500. Quite a bit of difference.

The first question is, have they checked with their liability insurance carrier to see if they would be able to get insurance on the converted vehicle? Many Fire Department Insurance Carriers will not insure a converted fuel tanker. That being said......

-Is this tanker's GVW capable of handling 5K of water versus 5K of Jet-A???

-Is the driveline capable of handling the difference???

-Have they installed proper baffles inside the tank for highway/road useage???

-Will they be properly training the banker, the butcher, the carpenter, the schoolteacher and the barber (you know- all the volunteer firefighters who never drive any trucks unless if driving to a fire......when many of them get tunnelvision or "Siren-Cide") how to handle this beast which is now handling more weight than it was ever intended to haul????

There is so much free money out there these days (homeland security, FEMA, emergency management....state and federal.......All you have to do is ask for it and the Feds are practically throwing money at Volunteer Fire Departments that need equipment.

So many guys have been hurt and even killed in converted tankers. Just dont want to see any more.

[Mackpro]

Been a career/volunteer firefighter for 22+ years. I hold IFSAC/Pro-Board Certifications to drive everything with a red light/siren and wheels, including ARFF vehicles. Have worked on several military installations (including a large-frame airfield) as a federal firefighter. I like to think I have the experience to back those pieces of paper up.

The USAF Fuel Tankers are only baffled for "X" amount of fuel (Not sure what the USAF uses but in this case lets say Jet-A which is 6.75lbs per gallon on a ISA (International Standard Atmosphere) day; and only for on a nice, flat and leve airport surface at 35-38 miles per hour, which most of them rarely see.

Again, not sure what the tank capacity is, in this case lets say 5000 gallons. 5K of Jet-A weighs 33750.

5K of water (at 8.3lbs per gallon) weighs 41500. Quite a bit of difference.

The first question is, have they checked with their liability insurance carrier to see if they would be able to get insurance on the converted vehicle? Many Fire Department Insurance Carriers will not insure a converted fuel tanker. That being said......

-Is this tanker's GVW capable of handling 5K of water versus 5K of Jet-A???

-Is the driveline capable of handling the difference???

-Have they installed proper baffles inside the tank for highway/road useage???

-Will they be properly training the banker, the butcher, the carpenter, the schoolteacher and the barber (you know- all the volunteer firefighters who never drive any trucks unless if driving to a fire......when many of them get tunnelvision or "Siren-Cide") how to handle this beast which is now handling more weight than it was ever intended to haul????

There is so much free money out there these days (homeland security, FEMA, emergency management....state and federal.......All you have to do is ask for it and the Feds are practically throwing money at Volunteer Fire Departments that need equipment.

So many guys have been hurt and even killed in converted tankers. Just dont want to see any more.

So many poor county governments down here. One local town here just retired their gas burning Mack fire truck about 6 years ago, I did the last tuneup on it before it was gone. One local county road dept was so happy to get a new to them 1999 CH converted dump truck. Before that their newest Mack dump had a 2 valve head engine in it. This is a county of 5123 people where 24% on them live below the poverty line and 30% are over 65 and on SS. Poor is poor and these small counties are happy to get what they can. However the state road departments in the same counties have new 2011 Mack GU's.

[joes mack]

i would like to put my 2cents in on this topic. being that i am a voulinteer fire fighter with 21 years exp. f.w.d. you have a very good point about the bafeling in the tanks and the g.v.w. capicity. and i agree with you. but on the part about the grants we have tried every year for the last 15 years to get some kind of help from fema,homeland security, state, and local govs but with no help. but on the bright side the city fire dept gets help every year seems like but it dont help us one bit because they wont come out of the city limits to help us but if they have a big fire they call us. we have 7 trucks but only 3 are in operation engine 1 is a 67 750 ford engine 2 is a 71 c900 ford with a up grade from a gas burner to a 3208 cat in 1995. this truck was given to us by another dept that closed down beacuse they couldnt get any help. and tanker 4 is a 84 L 8000 ford that holds 2000 gal and we built it our selfs. but if we could get a grant we would get a newer tanker that is properly set up for all of the reasons you have stated exp the driver part.but common sense is your best wheapon when driving on curvy roads with a unbafeled tanker. but for now we will have to make due with what we have and can aford

[1958 F.W.D.]

but common sense is your best wheapon when driving on curvy roads with a unbafeled tanker.

Like I said.....the banker, the butcher, the carpenter, the schoolteacher and the barber (you know- all the volunteer firefighters who never drive any trucks unless if driving to a fire....These guys who are members of the VFD are guys who have never driven trucks in their lives until they joined the VFD. Then you also have the members who ARE truck drivers. These are the ones with the common sense.

As for the grant money, I don't understand. Poor companies in rural Pennsylvania are having no problems getting grant monies. Have you guys solicited your politicians for help? They just love standing in front of a group of Volunteer FF's with one of those huge fake checks for photo opportunities with the newspaper.

[fxfymn]

FWD is absolutely right. Members of FD's, both career and volunteer, die in tanker roll over incidents every year. Many of them caused by home made units that fail to comply with NFPA standards. If you insist on using what is basically an unsafe piece of apparatus at the very least you should remove all emergency warning devices and limit the road speed to 1/2 the posted speed. And before I'm the subject of ridicule over the speed limitation most department's average response speed is around 30 MPH, so the speed limit doesn't affect reponse times that much.

Unsafe apparatus places the public at risk as well as the responding members. Remember the old adage: The emergency is theirs, not yours. No one ever got killed by driving too slowly to an incident.

And last, but not least: When you operate a piece that does not comply with any NFPA standards, current or past, you are placing yourself and your department in a precarious position from a liability stand point. Is it really worth exposing your personal financial well being to the risk?

[David]

Here in NC, about 15 years ago, a guy was running down I40 in a homemade water truck on a Mack DM. Blew a steering tire and hit a bridge abutment. He probably would have servived the wreck if the tank didn't come loose and crush him against the steering wheel.

[Mackpro]

Iwill advise the county to scrap their water truck. When the poor peoples houses burn from lake of water we can just blame it on Bush

[ThaddeusW]

Iwill advise the county to scrap their water truck. When the poor peoples houses burn from lake of water we can just blame it on Bush

Or Obama, pick you punching bag.

Everyone has excellent points. But like you said you have to be Macgyver sometimes. I just hope no one gets hurt.

[1958 F.W.D.]

And with this new budget being passed, you can bet all of the monies available will be shot down in the next 2-3 years if it takes that long.