JerryB

Yeah me too Rob. From what I can tell the temp sensor on the intake manifold regulates the EGR valve control. IOW-- the EGR valve gate seems to operate from temp sensors on the intake only. oh yeah bigen I didn't mention the fan hubs. A Behr electric fan hub is $860 in Houston and I'm on my 3rd one now. I feel your pain brother.

I have the cooling upgrade now but I didn't have it when running the desert. I had forgot to mention the idler but I have had to replace mine 2 times in 500,000 miles. The belts run about 100,000 to 120,000 miles. I clean the water screen every fall and renew the anti-freeze. I did one thing Mack said don't do. I put a 1/4" thick flat steel plate in between my EGR valve and exhaust manifold so it can't transfer exhaust gases into the intake. I left all the sensors in place and the wires intact so it thinks it's still working. Not only did it lower the engine temp but it also gave me about 1/2 mile more per gallon on fuel.

bigen I've run Los Angeles to Houston turns in the summer grossed at 80,000 with no probs. My water temp runs around 210 with the oil temp around 220-225. I run mine a gear or 2 lower like packer said with no probs. It wears the fan belt out pretty quick but I suppose that's because the fan never turns off and it takes so much power to turn. There's a filter screen inside the rubber "Y" connection in the bottom radiator hose that stops up some times but when it does just blow it out with air to clean it and keep on trucking.

I priced one recently for $850 in Houston, Tx.

Thanks for mentioning that. I'd forgot about the oil line behind the ECM, the radiator blowing apart, and a $1400 radiator for the EGR. I think we can all say we wouldn't have another 460 Mack

True so true. I was thinking cost effective but the man did say cheap.

RowdyRebel not to be argumentative with you but the last 2 water pumps, 3 EUP, 2 injector nozzles, and high dollar turbo I bought from Mack were all a POS and prematurely failed but the "cheaper" ones I replaced the OEM Mack parts with from M&D Injection haven't failed, plus that the M & D injection parts carry a 1 year replacement warranty, no questions asked. The Mack warranty was to buy another new part from Mack while they send the failed part back to Memphis to "determine" the cause of failure. If they determine the failure was really a failure Mack will prorate a partial refund that doesn't include the extra part I had to buy, or the core charge I had to pay while they "determine" the failure and leave me core-less. If petetheo has been dealing with genuine Mack parts then maybe cheaper really is more cost effective. On the up side Mack did finally and under protest refund $3100 of the $3600 on their new turbo that only lasted 6100 miles before failure, but no refund on the EUP and no refund on the injector nozzles, no refund on water pumps. I still don't understand how I turned in my old turbo for core and they kept the failed turbo with nothing back to me as a core and Mack still kept my $500 core charge. At one time I would do without parts before I bought anything besides genuine Mack replacement parts but I don't speak enough Chinese or Spanish to carry on a relationship with them anymore and I won't spend thousands of dollars on non-warranted parts. Like I said I'm not arguing nor crying about it I'm just saying maybe petetheo hasn't had such a good experience with Mack either.

I don't know bigen. If I had to depend on mine to pay it's own way it never never made it's own payment. The reason I keep it is because people more knowledgeable than me know it isn't worth a trade-in and I've spent too much on it to just urinate it away. I've been thinking about putting an old school mechanical 427 Mack in it but don't know how much alteration it would take. Maybe someday someone will post the info for that swap. I've owned B model and H model and R models all my life and kept good credit with them while raising 5 kids and paying off 2 farms and homes but this 04 Vision is in a whole different category but I do give it credit for being the most comfortable truck I've ever drove including KW and Pete long legged huge cars.

I've got the twin to yours and your story sounds like my story.

I have the very same truck you describe with 500,000 miles on it and it's been an unreliable POS since day one. Besides the original cost of the truck I've spent well over $10,000 on "upgrades" such as turbos, EGR coolers, EGR valve, injector nozzles, EUPs, and it's still a POS. Right now mine is pushing coolant out the overflow and we can find no cause for it, and it has always been one continual oil leak after the other, when you fix one leak 2 more pop up. Mine rides and drives like a Cadillac just not for long stretches at a time. If I knew then what I know now I'd have gone with a 2 story Ford Falcon

Yeah I gave $3600 for the turbo on my 04 w/460

Thanks again for the code site fjh. and thanks for the info MackPro68, Mack-Houston had one in stock so I put it in and a new injector line on today. Mack didn't have time to calibrate it today so I'll get that tomorrow but it runs smooth as silk again now.

Thanks fjh. Yes it's the fuel pump unit for #4 so I'm on it in the morning.

Gentlemen once again I ask for your valuable experience. My 2004 CX with 460 has a dead miss on #4 cylinder and the lightning bolt trouble light gives me a n 8-4 code. Do I need to take my truck to a diagnosis computer or just swap the EUP and then go get the new pump calibrated?

Thanks to each and everyone for the input. fjh your comment on wiring made me want to trace all the wires. The oil pressure wire you spoke of was broken and corroded deep within the protective wrapping so after cleaning and re-connecting the wire old babe runs like a pup again. Thanks again guys. Jerry

You're right HK but I wanted you guys to know I had done the preliminaries to be sure the problem isn't being caused from low liquids. It's getting dark so I'll check some more tomorrow. Thanks to all of you for your input.

fjh only the red light that says *emergency shut down* comes on. The yellow *electronic malfunction* light does not come on at anytime. Thanks to you and Rob for your interest. I've checked oil and water levels and they're both full. The oil pressure gauge shows 80-85psi and the water temp is up to 140f degrees.

Gentlemen, I have a 96 CH613 with 350 that sat not running several months, ran fine when parked. Now when I crank it the emergency shut down light comes on and engine goes dead. If I turn ignition off and back on the light goes off and it will immediately fire back up and run for about 30 seconds then same thing all over again. Oil is full and oil pressure is good and radiator is full of coolant so what gives?? Thanks-Jerry

Thanks again fjh. That sounds like sound advice to me. I've spotted a midroof 2006 CX that I like the looks of so I'll check it out tomorrow.

Thanks fjh. Please let me ask you gentlemen one more dumb question. Do you think the Horton with AC high pressure switch and water manifold sensors would keep the 460 EGR engine cool? and maybe with the Horton I could get the Behr program deleted from ECU?? In 1966 I started trucking with a 1956 B61 integral sleeper and have stayed with Mack through the years but this all electric engine is killing me.

Thanks for your response mackdaddy. I hadn't heard about Horton going Chinese but that sounds about right. The reason I wanted to switch to Horton if possible is that my Behr has been replaced twice in 13 months and has locked itself out again now. Since the Horton is now a POS too I may as well replace the Behr and go on. Once again my thanks and well wishes. Jerry

Gentlemen. I have a Behr electric control fan clutch on my 2004 Vision w/460 and want to replace it with a Horton fan clutch if possible. Will the Horton bolt back where the Behr is and is there anything besides the air solenoid set up to be added?? Thanks--Jerry

Thanks Mackpro. We checked the fan clutch and it checked good so then I had the wiring checked, the connections checked, also checked the ac pressure switches and temp sending units and they checked good. The fan still runs continuous so we're still checking. Thanks for your help

Gentlemen. My 2004 Vision w460 has a viscose cooling fan that stays engaged at all times. The error code flashes for "FAN RELAY" but I can't find the fan relay all I can find is a 15amp fuse in the engine compartment firewall box. The 15amp fuse is not blown so can someone please tell me where the fan relay is located?? It is not a Horton air activated type fan clutch it only has 5 electrical wires going to the clutch hub. I have checked all 5 wires in the clutch hub harness and all are good with no corrosion or breaks. Any help is greatly appreciated--Thanks-Jerry

When you get the nut off don't forget to take the oil dipstick tube completely out of the block. It took me a minute to figure out why the aux shaft wouldn't slide out of the block and it was the dipstick tube stopping it.