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    Guest Message by DevFuse
     

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    Coal Hauler?



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    11 replies to this topic

    #1 OFFLINE   granitefan713

    granitefan713

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    Posted 14 August 2007 - 01:27 PM

    Hey guys, I'm hoping someone can help me out. Most of the RD888s I've seen have had "coal dumps" like this ( http://www.teamworld...62607081230.jpg ). And the new versions are on Granite chassis like this ( http://www.teamworld...80307110836.jpg ).

    My questions are what are these trucks primarily used for? Coal??
    Also, what states do these trucks commonly operate in?
    And are they "highway" legal?

    #2 OFFLINE   ThaddeusW

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    Posted 14 August 2007 - 07:49 PM

    I believe in PA there are certain towns or jurisdictions that allow the 80+k on three axles.
    -Thad
    What America needs is less bull and more Bulldog!

    #3 OFFLINE   bulldog man

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      Ya I was Naned After A B-Model Mack lol

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    Posted 17 August 2007 - 05:38 PM

    they run these in the state of Ky also as a coal dump . & yes they are road legal We have some in the Memphis aera owned by a Demolition Co.


    But bring one of these to the Memphis,Tn area these are used as a demolition dumptruck (esp by Memphis Wrecking Co)

    because of the yards of debries ya hold in these beds. ;)



    later

    :mack1:

    Old Dog Is alive & doing well w/ new owner right here in the Millington,Tn Area !!! Thank you Lord for sending a fellow Mack Man to rescue my name sake & pride & joy Old Dog from the scrap yard in Memphis!! hopfully he will running again soon.


    #4 OFFLINE   Coalbucket

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    Posted 21 August 2007 - 08:30 PM

    Thad as far as I know PA has always been 72,380 on 4 axles. At least since about 1970, before that it was 60,000 on three axles.

    Now you take Eastern Kentucky (Prestonsburg, Hazard, etc) and to some extent Tennessee and WV coal country, that is where the Mack 23,000 pound steer and 80,000 pound bogie became famous. If you could see the coal, peaked at the top, it was probably scaling around 120,000-130,000 on three axles.

    More recently KY went to tractors and with three axle trailers it was up around 170,000 until around 2004 when they really started cracking down. The new governor is from the western part of the state and he is not so supportive of the coal. Now most are more like 120,000 with the tractor trailers. You still see lots of RD800 straight trucks 's running even though the market for new fell off with the weight enforcement.

    Mack has probly hauled more coal than the next five brands added together.

    #5 OFFLINE   granitefan713

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    Posted 22 August 2007 - 08:51 AM

    Interesting, very interesting. Thanks for clearing it up. Maybe you guys could explain something else for me.
    I've been desperately trying to understand these bridge laws and can't seem to figure it out. Recently I rode in a 2008 Mack GU713 quad axle dump here in PA, it was part of the Mack Performance Tour. Obviously, we don't run quad axles here in PA (I'm referring to 4 rear axles in case it wasn't clear). So I asked the salesman if it is legal to run quad axles in PA and he said "it is but drivers just can't get the weight out of them" and I'm not quite sure I understand what he meant. I understand that the federal highway limit in most states is 80,000lbs, and if PA's limit is 72,380 on four axles, why don't they add an extra axle and "distribute" the axle capacities accordingly to get an 80,000lb GVW? I have played around with the actual bridge formula to calculate weight capacities, but it didn't help me much.

    Basically, I'm asking "Why don't they run quad or quint axle dumps here in PA while they do out west if the federal limit in both states is 80,000lbs"?

    #6 OFFLINE   Coalbucket

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    Posted 22 August 2007 - 08:55 PM

    So I asked the salesman if it is legal to run quad axles in PA and he said "it is but drivers just can't get the weight out of them" and I'm not quite sure I understand what he meant. I understand that the federal highway limit in most states is 80,000lbs, and if PA's limit is 72,380 on four axles, why don't they add an extra axle and "distribute" the axle capacities accordingly to get an 80,000lb GVW? I have played around with the actual bridge formula to calculate weight capacities, but it didn't help me much.

    Basically, I'm asking "Why don't they run quad or quint axle dumps here in PA while they do out west if the federal limit in both states is 80,000lbs"?


    The federal limit can only be mandated to roads with federal money. Interstates, mainly. Most states nationwide also apply the bridge formula to their state roads. But Pennsylvania chose to keep their old, non-bridge formula law on state roads.

    According to bridge formula you need 51 feet between first and last axles to get 80,000 pounds. That means something like a 40 foot trailer which itself is pretty heavy so the tare is up and you can't put all that much more coal in it than a regular coalbucket anyway. Plus Pennsylvania being a colder state, you get a lot of times the coal freezes to one side or another and when you go to dump with a long trailer like that and it gets that high and some coal hangs up, over she goes on her side, even the frameless dump types. So a regular coalbucket dump truck just works better all around.

    It was 1980 when harrisburg passed 80,000 pounds, two years before the national requirement for it. And when they first passed it, after years pf lobbying by PMTA, they had decided to go with it on all the roads. Then they found out that that limited all the coal trucks to 55,000 pounds (because of their length) and take a look at all the PennDOT triaxle dumps (tandem rear axle plus a 20,000 pusher) that harrisburg owns, why, they'll be limited to 55,000 too, so in just ten more days they had amended the law to where all state roads went back to 73280 on 4 axles.

    The bridge formula quad axle truck is something like 57,000 with two light pushers that can't be lifted legally so they have to steer which means single tires which is OK because you can't put too much on them anyway. Good for gravel in North carolina but I wouldn't put one in a mine. So what the salesman meant when he said "it is but drivers just can't get the weight out of them" was that in Pennsylvania you can load up that 20k pusher and lift it when you need to turn so it is just a more productive truck for the product and the geography and the state law.

    Back to Kentucky and your picture , why pussyfoot around with a pucher axle when you can run 130,000 on a Mack SX with only three axles? Oh, yeah, we're not allowed to be that heavy on the axles anymore. (at least not on public roads)

    #7 OFFLINE   granitefan713

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    Posted 23 August 2007 - 07:28 AM

    Ahh, its making sense now. Thanks for clearing it up a bit.

    #8 OFFLINE   cl460

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    Posted 21 November 2007 - 04:10 PM

    They just don't recognize the other axle, you are lucky. I have a six axle in Ohio, and i'm only legal at 69500, which is only 20.6 tons. My tri-axle, which is what you guys run in PA, is only legal at 59500,or 15.5 tons. Our weight laws suck. I respect the lawmen, but I don't respect the laws. If I went by their standards. I'd go broke.

    #9 OFFLINE   bulldog man

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    Posted 22 November 2007 - 02:48 PM

    They just don't recognize the other axle, you are lucky. I have a six axle in Ohio, and i'm only legal at 69500, which is only 20.6 tons. My tri-axle, which is what you guys run in PA, is only legal at 59500,or 15.5 tons. Our weight laws suck. I respect the lawmen, but I don't respect the laws. If I went by their standards. I'd go broke.



    Ohio must have some tough bridge laws


    here in TN Ya are allowed up to 24.5 tons on a Tricycle & 20 tons on a tandem


    but they are talking bout changing our weight laws here as well as the qaud axles are finally filtering down here in my part of Tn


    But go to Ar or Ms they dont reconize the extra axles weight wise (15tons) but if ya have the extra axles & ya are loaded ya better use them if caught not using them loaded in AR Or MS the fine is very costly i know someone who was busted not using his in MS the fine was around $1200.00 bucks (just for not having the 3rd axle down :blink:)



    later


    :mack1:

    Old Dog Is alive & doing well w/ new owner right here in the Millington,Tn Area !!! Thank you Lord for sending a fellow Mack Man to rescue my name sake & pride & joy Old Dog from the scrap yard in Memphis!! hopfully he will running again soon.


    #10 OFFLINE   WVDogLover

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    Posted 10 December 2007 - 03:49 PM

    WV allows 120k with a 3 axle wagon(trailer). I think its around 112k with a normal 2 down wagon. A tri-axle is good for 90k while I think a tandem is good for 80k. All of these are allowed a 5% variance for fuel and mud. These extended weights are for coal only..not real sure what the aggregate weight allowances would be.

    #11 OFFLINE   WVDogLover

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    Posted 10 December 2007 - 04:01 PM

    Those 800's pictured are Massey Energy company trucks. Its impossible to have a rougher life than these trucks have had. 90% of the drivers are trainees and most of their trucks end up wrecked. Notice how it marks its parking place? LOL As a general rule of thumb after dealing with this dealership for many years for parts....



    Team Worldwide=Find another dealer!!!



    They suck!


    Thankfully we have other places around that do a far better job of selling parts.

    #12 OFFLINE   rigchaser

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    Posted 15 December 2007 - 09:41 AM

    Thad as far as I know PA has always been 72,380 on 4 axles. At least since about 1970, before that it was 60,000 on three axles.

    Now you take Eastern Kentucky (Prestonsburg, Hazard, etc) and to some extent Tennessee and WV coal country, that is where the Mack 23,000 pound steer and 80,000 pound bogie became famous. If you could see the coal, peaked at the top, it was probably scaling around 120,000-130,000 on three axles.

    More recently KY went to tractors and with three axle trailers it was up around 170,000 until around 2004 when they really started cracking down. The new governor is from the western part of the state and he is not so supportive of the coal. Now most are more like 120,000 with the tractor trailers. You still see lots of RD800 straight trucks 's running even though the market for new fell off with the weight enforcement.

    Mack has probly hauled more coal than the next five brands added together.



    73,280 in PA;)




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