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    Guest Message by DevFuse
     

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    105 Shut Down



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    19 replies to this topic

    #1 OFFLINE   supershepy

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    Posted 09 January 2010 - 08:13 PM

    Okay,I'm sure this quetion has been asked a lot,but gonna ask it again.Not sure how many of you drivers run the province of Ontario (Canada) but if you do you all know about the laws they have(a lot of B.S!).In order to drive in this province or state your truck must be govern at top speed of 105kmp(roughly 65 mph).Its the law and if you go in for a spot check and the DOT plug into your truck(your ECM), and its not turned down there is a nasty fine.now a company has developed a item called"SafteyPass Pro" which hooks into your speed sensor and can override the 105 kmp shut down,but it does not work on Mack engines(only Mack engines),Mack has a problem, Anti-Tamper settings (if they are enabled) that are tough to overcome. They can hook up to the speed sensor alright but we can't get a signal through to the ECM with the current unit.Just wondering if anybody has heard of any tricks to the trade of overiding the speed limitors without putting the truck into "LIMP MODE"? P.S. Its a Mack Vision 2005,13 speed www.fastertruck.com/safetypass

    Edited by supershepy, 09 January 2010 - 08:14 PM.

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    #2 OFFLINE   RowdyRebel

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    Posted 09 January 2010 - 08:41 PM

    That must be what the guy in Effingham is using...says he can "hide" at least 10 mph.

    Personally, I don't go into provinces that mandate speed limiters be placed on my truck which would prevent me from traveling the speed limit on any road upon which I travel. I won't go to Calif***ya, either, due to their emissions requirements.

    So what kind of trouble would you be in if you "disabled" the connector so that they couldn't connect to the ECU when they plugged into your truck? Might be as simple as tracing a couple wires back up under the dash and splicing in a quick-connect that you'd leave unplugged unless you had a problem and a shop needed to upload/download information...that way when Canada DOT spot-checked you, they wouldn't be able to tell whether you had a limiter or not...


    I'd check with a Mack tech, though....be sure you ain't going to cut the wrong wire :pat:
    When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way!

    #3 OFFLINE   RowdyRebel

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    Posted 09 January 2010 - 08:44 PM

    :pat: OK...upon looking at the website, that appears to be something that stays with the truck so you can adjust your top speed on the fly. The guy in Effingham plugs in and changes the settings on-site before sending you on your way.
    When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way!

    #4 OFFLINE   supershepy

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    Posted 10 January 2010 - 12:12 AM

    :pat: OK...upon looking at the website, that appears to be something that stays with the truck so you can adjust your top speed on the fly. The guy in Effingham plugs in and changes the settings on-site before sending you on your way.

    Correct my friend,it is a device that gives you Maxium RPM in your top gear.The only problem with Mack programing they have a lot of Anti-tampering programing in their ECM,which in English if you mess with anything the computer picks it up and put the truck into LIMP MODE,(turns down the truck so you just got enough power to pull her to the side).As for the DOT plugging in and NOT being able to determine if your truck is turned down because they cannot get a reading from the ECM,you will be fined just the same,they got their ass covered on this law.It would be the same as being pulled over for a drunk driving and refusing to blow into the breathalizer to give them a reading.But I appreciate the Input,good thinking.
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    #5 OFFLINE   RowdyRebel

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    Posted 10 January 2010 - 01:21 AM

    Correct my friend,it is a device that gives you Maxium RPM in your top gear.The only problem with Mack programing they have a lot of Anti-tampering programing in their ECM,which in English if you mess with anything the computer picks it up and put the truck into LIMP MODE,(turns down the truck so you just got enough power to pull her to the side).As for the DOT plugging in and NOT being able to determine if your truck is turned down because they cannot get a reading from the ECM,you will be fined just the same,they got their ass covered on this law.It would be the same as being pulled over for a drunk driving and refusing to blow into the breathalizer to give them a reading.But I appreciate the Input,good thinking.



    ...so even if you DIDN'T maliciously alter the electrical connection, if a wire shakes loose and they can't scan the ECM you get a ticket? You buy a truck not knowing that the previous owner disconnected a wire and you get a ticket?


    All the more reason to stay out of those provinces. No freight is going to pay me enough to voluntarily agree to impede the flow of traffic down here.



    Maybe disconnect the wiring altogether and locate another plug-in behind the dash for dealer usage....and wire up the one they'll plug into at a voltage & amperage that will literally fry their scanner....like run 12 gauge wire straight from the battery to the plug, so when they plug in their scanner, it'll let out all of it's smoke :lol:

    If yer gonna get in trouble, ya may as well do something to deserve it. :thumb:
    When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way!

    #6 OFFLINE   Mackpro68

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    Posted 10 January 2010 - 10:59 AM

    Correct my friend,it is a device that gives you Maxium RPM in your top gear.The only problem with Mack programing they have a lot of Anti-tampering programing in their ECM,which in English if you mess with anything the computer picks it up and put the truck into LIMP MODE,(turns down the truck so you just got enough power to pull her to the side).As for the DOT plugging in and NOT being able to determine if your truck is turned down because they cannot get a reading from the ECM,you will be fined just the same,they got their ass covered on this law.It would be the same as being pulled over for a drunk driving and refusing to blow into the breathalizer to give them a reading.But I appreciate the Input,good thinking.

    On the Mack if you have the dealer uncheck/disable the anti-tampering setting then you unplug the speedo sensor on the rear of the trans, the truck will now run without any limits ( as fast as the gears will let it) but the speedo/odometer will not work and you might get a code for open circuit on the speedo circuit. On every truck we sell new and used we always turn this off so if the customer has a problem with there speedo or wiring it wont limit their power. However most fleets have this feature turned on and it is usually passworded. We buy alot of fleet trucks for resell and I have to redownload the ECM's to wipe out the passwords. The easy way around this is if you had the anti-tampering parameter turned off,(but mph set at 65) you could cut one of the two speedo wires and run it into the cab through a toggle switch the back to the speedo sensor. Now when your running down the road flip the switch and go as fast as you want. Get checked by DOT, flip the switch everything back to 65mph. You can use your GPS/nav for a speedo, the real downfall is no odometer.

    #7 OFFLINE   ThaddeusW

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    Posted 10 January 2010 - 02:14 PM

    As for the DOT plugging in and NOT being able to determine if your truck is turned down because they cannot get a reading from the ECM,you will be fined just the same,they got their ass covered on this law.


    Ah yes but its not hard to fool them. An electronic device such as a micro controller could be stealthily placed between the ECM and scanner plug. It can be programmed to allow normal diagnostics but any time a read is done to check for the speed limiter it would intercept the data from the ECU and then generate fake data to be sent to the scanner. A hidden switch could also be placed somewhere that puts the controller into an invisible mode so a dealer could accurately check and set the ECM and never know its there. This type of intercept and injection attack is well known in the computer world.
    So when officer baloney plugs his scanner in and your ECM is set to 75 he will get a read of 55 because the controller intercepts the code for 75 and instead sends him the code for 55.

    If you want an analogy I am sure there are a few guys my age here that played Nintendo or Sega with the game genie. The game genie gave you all sorts of advantages using the same trick. Those cryptic codes you entered in were memory addresses and the data that address contained. So for example the game genie intercepted the address that contains the number of lives you character had and put a much higher number in. Same goes for other data.

    I am sure someone could easily put one together. This is also how ECM's could be fooled and engines turned up, emissions turned off and all sorts of other fun stuff.
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    #8 OFFLINE   supershepy

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    Posted 10 January 2010 - 07:07 PM

    ...so even if you DIDN'T maliciously alter the electrical connection, if a wire shakes loose and they can't scan the ECM you get a ticket? You buy a truck not knowing that the previous owner disconnected a wire and you get a ticket?


    All the more reason to stay out of those provinces. No freight is going to pay me enough to voluntarily agree to impede the flow of traffic down here.



    Maybe disconnect the wiring altogether and locate another plug-in behind the dash for dealer usage....and wire up the one they'll plug into at a voltage & amperage that will literally fry their scanner....like run 12 gauge wire straight from the battery to the plug, so when they plug in their scanner, it'll let out all of it's smoke :lol:

    If yer gonna get in trouble, ya may as well do something to deserve it. :thumb:LOL I like your way of thinking!Yes,next time I'm at the dealership I will get the anti tampering box checked OFF.She is a used truck and yes there is no password needed to get into her.Will probaly go that route and run the toggle switch into the cab disconnecting the speedo,for the warrenty is well up twice over on this girl.Thank ya all for the suggestions and answers,been great help.


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    #9 OFFLINE   supershepy

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    Posted 10 January 2010 - 07:17 PM

    On the Mack if you have the dealer uncheck/disable the anti-tampering setting then you unplug the speedo sensor on the rear of the trans, the truck will now run without any limits ( as fast as the gears will let it) but the speedo/odometer will not work and you might get a code for open circuit on the speedo circuit. On every truck we sell new and used we always turn this off so if the customer has a problem with there speedo or wiring it wont limit their power. However most fleets have this feature turned on and it is usually passworded. We buy alot of fleet trucks for resell and I have to redownload the ECM's to wipe out the passwords. The easy way around this is if you had the anti-tampering parameter turned off,(but mph set at 65) you could cut one of the two speedo wires and run it into the cab through a toggle switch the back to the speedo sensor. Now when your running down the road flip the switch and go as fast as you want. Get checked by DOT, flip the switch everything back to 65mph. You can use your GPS/nav for a speedo, the real downfall is no odometer.

    K, what about the reverse switch that is on your trans,that tells you when you are in reverse,(light comes on the dash),if you were to put a toggle switch on it and ground it when you are in top gear,would that not tell the ECM that you are in reverse and there would not be any shut down then?Heard this being done to a KW one time....
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    #10 OFFLINE   Double L

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    Posted 10 January 2010 - 07:18 PM

    You got to watch that Rowdy Rebel, his name says it all. If there is a way around the system you can bet he figured some way around it. :thumb:

    #11 OFFLINE   supershepy

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    Posted 10 January 2010 - 07:38 PM

    You got to watch that Rowdy Rebel, his name says it all. If there is a way around the system you can bet he figured some way around it. :thumb:

    LoL!I hear ya!Most of us Reb's are like that!Good Idea on the 12 volt to the plug in,fry up Mr. DOT's scanner.But why not go all the way,juice up a capacitor run it down to the new plug in.I can just picture the look on the guys face when the scanner would melt in his hand. :chili:
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    #12 OFFLINE   Double L

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    Posted 10 January 2010 - 07:48 PM

    LoL!I hear ya!Most of us Reb's are like that!Good Idea on the 12 volt to the plug in,fry up Mr. DOT's scanner.But why not go all the way,juice up a capacitor run it down to the new plug in.I can just picture the look on the guys face when the scanner would melt in his hand. :chili:


    I know who to come when I need some "illegal" work done. :lol:

    #13 OFFLINE   RowdyRebel

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    Posted 10 January 2010 - 08:31 PM

    Either that or have a program that would load a virus onto his scanner so that it would start out at 105 km/h for your truck, and every time he scanned another truck it would read out one less km/h...104....103...102...101...that it wouldn't ACTUALLY be reading the truck ECM's, but would instead just display the decreasing value.... :lol:



    How many trucks ya think they'd scan before they caught on to the "problem"? B)
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    #14 OFFLINE   supershepy

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    Posted 10 January 2010 - 10:03 PM

    Either that or have a program that would load a virus onto his scanner so that it would start out at 105 km/h for your truck, and every time he scanned another truck it would read out one less km/h...104....103...102...101...that it wouldn't ACTUALLY be reading the truck ECM's, but would instead just display the decreasing value.... :lol:



    How many trucks ya think they'd scan before they caught on to the "problem"? B)

    LOL
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    #15 OFFLINE   RowdyRebel

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    Posted 11 January 2010 - 08:31 AM

    LOL



    Something like that would be great, because you'd be on down the road LOOOOOONG before they realized there was a problem, and they'd be left scratching their heads trying to figure out when/where/how it happened. If your truck causes a CMS incident at the moment the scanner is plugged in, you're busted.


    Half the fun of causing trouble is reading about it in the paper knowing they have no clue who they are looking for. :thumb:
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    #16 OFFLINE   supershepy

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    Posted 11 January 2010 - 10:42 AM

    Something like that would be great, because you'd be on down the road LOOOOOONG before they realized there was a problem, and they'd be left scratching their heads trying to figure out when/where/how it happened. If your truck causes a CMS incident at the moment the scanner is plugged in, you're busted.


    Half the fun of causing trouble is reading about it in the paper knowing they have no clue who they are looking for. :thumb:

    We will brother,and we'll try not to pick on those poor DOT officers in Ont.,anyways,off to Boston I go...ya all take care
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    #17 OFFLINE   supershepy

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    Posted 18 March 2010 - 08:00 AM

    Just an update on the 105 ,had my girl to the Mack dealer and got her turned down to 105kph,(64.7 mph),so I won't be fined $480.00.I also got the "Loss of power "box unchecked in the Spedo sensor settings,ran a duel wirefrom the top of the transmission (breaking the connection on the Spedo,ran the wire through a plastic tube up to the fire wall(so looks factory cause the dot are looking for gismos),and hooked her into a factory switch on my dash.Hit the switch and away I go!Just use my tach for how fast I'm going ,great rig too for doing LTL work all day around the city,saves wracking up miles on the odometer and recording it in your Log,then half to run all night.Thanks for the sugguestion BMT!It's working great! :SMOKIE-LFT:

    Edited by supershepy, 18 March 2010 - 08:01 AM.

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    #18 OFFLINE   RowdyRebel

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    Posted 20 March 2010 - 08:45 PM

    Just an update on the 105 ,had my girl to the Mack dealer and got her turned down to 105kph,(64.7 mph),so I won't be fined $480.00.I also got the "Loss of power "box unchecked in the Spedo sensor settings,ran a duel wirefrom the top of the transmission (breaking the connection on the Spedo,ran the wire through a plastic tube up to the fire wall(so looks factory cause the dot are looking for gismos),and hooked her into a factory switch on my dash.Hit the switch and away I go!Just use my tach for how fast I'm going ,great rig too for doing LTL work all day around the city,saves wracking up miles on the odometer and recording it in your Log,then half to run all night.Thanks for the sugguestion BMT!It's working great! :SMOKIE-LFT:


    Get a GPS unit to use as a speedometer :thumb:
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    #19 OFFLINE   bobo

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    Posted 20 March 2010 - 09:04 PM

    HOPEFULY THE MAN NOT READING THIS! I live in the nazi province and have NOT turned my truck down nor will I!! I dont know of any one who has been checked, not braggn but I know a few people.

    #20 OFFLINE   dkv411

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    Posted 17 February 2011 - 10:14 PM

    i know im a little late on this thread but i hope someone will read this. does mack make a duel plug speed senser for the mack transmission one plug for the cpu and another for the speedo? this would solve the speedo problem when you break the connection from the cpu. and where can i get one?




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