Popular Post kscarbel2 Posted February 10, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 10, 2014 The Mack-Scania relationship was established in 1950, when Mack Trucks collaborated with Scania (then known as Scania-Vabis) to produce and sell the Mack C-50 municipal transit bus in Europe. The result was the introduction of the Scania-Vabis “Metropol” municipal transit bus in 1953. However for the Scania version of the Mack C-50 city bus, rather than use the 165 horsepower Lanova principal pre-combustion chamber design (indirect injection) Mack END672 engine, Scania chose to use their own model D820 inline eight cylinder 11.3-liter 180 horsepower powertrain which benefited from the superior performance of direct fuel injection.Through an exchange agreement, Scania then provided Mack Trucks with their new open-chamber, direct-injection combustion system, resulting in the legendary Mack END673 “Thermodyne” engine. The direct injection END673 then quickly replaced the END672 incorporating Lanova pre-combustion chambers (energy cell combustion chamber). Note: In the early years, Mack Trucks’ early diesel engines including the ED519 and END672 utilized a Lanova design pre-combustion chamber design. Like Buda and others, Mack Trucks had purchased a technology license from Germany’s Lanova AG, led by the German engineer and Lanova concept inventor Franz Lang.Thus, in essentially what was a technology swap, Scania provided Mack with their advanced proprietary open-chamber, direct-injection combustion design in return for Mack providing Scania with a modern municipal transit bus. Scania and Mack Trucks then went on to forge a unique and close relationship which provided benefits to both companies for many years thru the mid-1980s.From the early 1960’s, Mack turned to Scania for their mid-range engine requirements. Scania produced 106,500 D8 and DS8 7.9-liter engines from 1961 thru 1986, 15,000 of which were shipped to America for installation in Mack trucks.Mack model Scania model PowerEND475 D8 140hpENDT475 DS8 190hpENDT(F)475 DS8 216hpET477 DS8 210hpETZ477 DS8 210hpETZ477B DS8 210hpE4-210 DS8 210hpMack and Scania then worked together on V8 development. It’s no coincidence the Mack and Scania V-8 engines share displacements.After five years of development, the Mack END(T)864 (1962-1972) entered limited production at Hagerstown in 1962 (Production might have started sooner, but the transfer of engine production from the old Plainfield, New Jersey plant to the modern new Hagerstown, Maryland facility in 1961 did not go smoothly). Using Mack-supplied END(T)864 V-8 engine blocks, Scania began development of its own version in 1962 with running prototypes in 1964. However, the production version of the Scania DS14 V-8 was based on the improved Mack ENDT865/866.Mack introduced the 14.2 liter ENDT865 in 1969, the same year Scania introduced the 14.2 liter DS14.Scania utilized individual cylinder heads on their version (favored in Europe at the time), while Mack used a two-cylinder head design (four heads total). To better achieve economy of scale for Mack and reduce investment costs for Scania, it made perfect sense for Mack to produce V-8 engine blocks for both companies. The only negative was for Scania having to convert English measurements to metric. Scania produced the DS14 up to year 2000. With the introduction of Euro-3 emissions, Scania introduced the 15.6 liter DC16 V-8.The 16.4-liter Mack E-9 is based on a revision of the 14.2-liter ENDT865/866 engine block. The current Scania Euro-6 DC16 V-8, in 520, 580 and 730 horsepower ratings, has a 16.4 liter displacement, identical to the Mack E9. (Mack Trucks jumped from 14.2 liters to 16.4. Scania moved incrementally with the block from 14.2 to 15.6 to 16.4)Scania’s current 16.4 liter version of the Mack/Scania block, rated up to 730 horsepower at Euro-6 (the rough equivalent of EPA2010), utilizes a compacted graphite iron (CGI)* engine block. In meeting Euro-6 (the Euro equivalent to EPA2010), CGI allowed Scania to raise cylinder combustion pressures from 165 bar on the earlier 15.6-liter V8 to 200 bar on the new 16.4-liter engine. Also, Scania XPI** (extra-high pressure injection) now takes injection pressures up to 2,400bar, and they have developed multiple variations for its injection profiles based on an HCCI (homogenous charge compression ignition).Volvo Group terminated Mack E9 V-8 engine production at Hagerstown in 2003.Mack Trucks had planned to re-launch the E9 V-8 in 2003 with Bosch electronic unit pump (EUP) injection. Revisions allowed it to meet the latest EPA standards while delivering superb power and fuel economy. However, Mack engineering was snubbed by Volvo Group. Volvo cancelled the pedigreed Mack E9 in favor of the upcoming Volvo D16 (rebadged as MP10).Had Volvo Group continued production of the Mack E9 V-8 engine, refined with oncoming new technologies including an extra-high pressure common rail fuel injection system and compacted graphite iron (CGI) engine block, the Mack brand would still have a legendary halo product. For a truckmaker in the U.S. market to have the V-8 high horsepower segment all to themselves is a sales manager's dream. *CGI has revolutionized the auto and truck industry. CGI engine blocks and cylinder heads provide 75 percent greater tensile strength, 45% greater stiffness and double the fatigue strength of conventional grey cast iron and aluminum. CGI allows engine designers to improve performance, fuel economy and durability while reducing engine weight, noise and emissions. CGI users now include Aston Martin, Audi, Caterpillar, Chrysler, DAF Trucks, Ford, General Electric Transportation Systems, General Motors, Hyundai, Jaguar, Jeep, Kia, Land Rover, MAN, Navistar, Porsche, PSA Peugeot-Citroën, Renault, Rolls-Royce, Scania, Toyota, Volkswagen, Volvo, VM Motori and Waukesha Engine.** Cummins-Scania XPI Manufacturing LLP, a 50/50 joint venture, was formed to design, develop and manufacture next generation fuel systems.Scania D14 SeriesYear Model Power1969 DS14 01 350hp turbocharged, introduced 1969 at IAA1971-1976 D14 260hp (normally aspirated for bus applications)1981 DS14 06 388hp1982 DSC14 01 420hp intercooled DSC14 02 390hp intercooled1988 DSC14 06 404hp intercooled DSC14 03 450hp intercooled DSC14 04 470hp intercooled, Bosch EDC (Electronic Diesel Control)1991 DSC14 10 453hp Euro-1, intercooled DSC14 09 500hp Euro-1, intercooled, Bosch EDC (Electronic Diesel Control)1994 DSC14 16 500hp Euro-2, intercooled, Bosch EDC (Electronic Diesel Control)1996 DSC14 15 460hp Euro-2, intercooled, Bosch EDC (Electronic Diesel Control) DSC14 13 530hp Euro-2, intercooled, Bosch EDC (Electronic Diesel Control)2000 DC16 04 500hp Euro-3, intercooled, Scania PDE Unit Injection DC16 03 580hp Euro-3, Intercooled, Scania PDE Unit Injection2004 DC16 06 500hp Euro-4, Intercooled, Scania PDE Unit Injection DC16 05 560hp Euro-4, Intercooled, Scania PDE Unit Injection DC16 08 620hp Euro-4, Intercooled, Scania PDE Unit Injection2009 DC16 19 500hp Euro-5, Intercooled, Scania PDE Unit Injection DC16 18 560hp Euro-5, Intercooled, Scania PDE Unit Injection DC16 17 620hp Euro-5, Intercooled, Scania PDE Unit Injection DC16 21 730hp Euro-5, Intercooled, Scania PDE Unit Injection2013 DC16 101 520hp Euro-6 (near EPA2010), Scania XPI Common Rail Injection DC16 102 580hp Euro-6 (near EPA2010), Scania XPI Common Rail Injection DC16 103 730hp Euro-6 (near EPA2010), Scania XPI Common Rail InjectionMack Trucks V-8 RangeModel Liters Horsepower Torque NoteENDD864 14.16 237 @ 2,000 930 N.m @ 1,400END864 14.16 255 @ 2,300 866 N.m @ 1,700END864B 14.16 270 @ 2,300 911 N.m @ 1,800ENDT864 14.16 325 @ 2,300 1,068 N.m @ 1,600 ENDDT865 14.19 285 @ 1,900 1,308 N.m @ 1,400ENDT865 14.19 325 @ 2,100 1,491 N.m @ 1,350ENDT866C 14.19 355 @ 2,100 1,410 N.M @ 1,500ENDT866 14.19 375 @ 2,200 1,410 N.m @ 1,600ETAZ1000 16.36 400 @ 1,900 2,060 N.m @ 1,230ETAZ1005A 16.36 400 @ 2,100 2,060 N.m @ 1,230EM9-400 16.36 400 @ 2,100 2,061 N.m @ 1,230 (55% torque rise)EM9-400R 16.36 400 @ 1,700 2,061 N.m @ 1,230 (23% torque rise)E9-440 16.36 440 @ 1,800 2,027 N.M @ 1,300 (16% torque rise)E9-400 16.36 400 @ 1,900 1,796 N.m @ 1,300 (20% torque rise)E9-450 16.36 450 @ 1,900 2,027 N.m @ 1,300 (20% torque rise)E9-500 16.36 500 @ 1,900 2,251 N.m @ 1,300 (20% torque rise)EE9-500 16.36 500 @ 1,900 2,000 N.m @ 1,300 Europe – Renault Magnum AE500EE9-520 16.36 520 @ 1,900 2,250 N.m @ 1,300 Europe – Renault Magnum AE520EE9-530 16.36 530 @ 1,900 2,250 N.m @ 1,300 Europe – Renault Magnum AE530EE9-560 16.36 560 @ 1,900 2,450 N.m @ 1,300 Europe – Renault Magnum AE560EN9-500 16.36 500 @ 1,900 2,173 N.m @ 1,300 Australia / New ZealandEN9-525HP 16.36 525 @ 1,900 2,251 N.m @ 1,300 Australia / New ZealandEA9-575HP 16.36 575 @ 1,900 Australia / New ZealandEA9-610HP 16.36 610 @ 1,900 2,779 N.m @ 1,300 Australia / New ZealandE9-700 (French Army) 16.36 700 @ 2,400 TRM 700-100 tank transporterE9-750 (French Army) 16.36 750 @ 2,400 AMX-30 B2 main battle tankE9-900 (French Army) 16.36 900 @ 2,400 Two-stage turbocharging (4 turbos)E9-1000 (French Army) 16.36 1,000 @ 2,400 Two-stage turbocharging (4 turbos)DME-9-500 16.36 500 @ 2,100 Daytona Marine EngineDME-9-550 16.36 550 @ 2,100 Daytona Marine EngineDME-9-700 16.36 700 @ 2,500 Daytona Marine EngineDME-9-720 16.36 720 @ 2,500 Daytona Marine EngineDME-9-750 16.36 750 @ 2,500 Daytona Marine EngineDME-9-820 16.36 820 @ 2,500 Daytona Marine EngineDME-9-880 16.36 880 @ 2,500 Daytona Marine EngineDME-9-925 16.36 925 @ 2,500 Daytona Marine Enginehttp://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/31744-1000-scania-v8/http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/33399-bulldog-in-scania-museum/http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/30165-when-scania-trucks-roamed-north-america/Should you have a chance to shoot up to Sweden when in Europe, I encourage one and all to take a tour of the impressive Scania museum adjacent to the company's headquarters and main plant in Sodertalje. You'll see a four-foot tall gold Mack bulldog, awarded by Mack Trucks to Scania for quality excellence.http://visitscania.se/en/visitshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuxL-iXX-3Ehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ9IX4Oa9oshttp://newsroom.scania.com/en-group/2011/07/01/scania-museum-a-walk-down-memory-lane/ 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james j neiweem Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Great information KS. I guess the modified Mack v8 lives on at Scania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifth wheel Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Continuing education, thank you. FW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41180 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 great history of the mack v8 . i have a few queations though mostly about the reliablility of the older 864/5/6 mack v8s. ive always been told they were not very reliable . ive heard stories of guys changing head gaskets every few months . one guy told me he got so good at changing head gaskets he could do one in about 4 hrs . is there any truth to that ? i know the e9 was pretty much bullet proof unless you abused them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackdaddy Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I have 4 B755's and out west they were quite popular however 3 of the 4 now have in line cummins in them as that was the engine of choice for loggers after the V8's gave up. I have heard stories of those that loved them and those that hated them. The late Bob Brown told a story when he was the service manager for Mack in the NW a fleet of 864's were sold to a company in Alaska and he said it was a disaster as he considered it to be an experimental engine especially when turbo'd. His opinion was this experience hurt Mack sales in Alaska ever since. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41180 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 thamks mackdaddy for the input. i know the guys ive talked to say they had alot of power but didnt hold together. im sure the e9 lost sales because of the early ones. i know my dad wanted to buy a 450 or 500 e9 when he bought his first superliner but was told theu were junk by alot of mack guys so he bought the 350 but latr learned the e9 was a vert dependable motor and ended up putting ane9 in the superliner when the e6 was worn out . i know where one old r700 sets now with a 375 hp v8 . its pretty rough . id like to save it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39 Baby Mack Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I was under the impression that all Mack V-8's were of the wet liner design.First the 864, then the 865/866 series, and finally the E-9 series.Am I wrong?Ron"Mack used a dry sleeve liner design while Scania chose wet sleeves." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 I was under the impression that all Mack V-8's were of the wet liner design.First the 864, then the 865/866 series, and finally the E-9 series.Am I wrong?RonMack used a dry sleeve liner design while Scania chose wet sleeves. You are right of course (too much jet lag this month). From the 864 to the E9, the Mack V8s had wet sleeves just as their Scania relatives always have (right up to the present). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 The 864 and 865 used wet liners.I have been in them when they were around. 1 Quote glenn akers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickykarenpr Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 do you have a pic of Scania?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackdaddy Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Has the F model look and a lot bigger V8 symbol! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Presenting the Scania (Mack) V-8http://www3.scania.com/en/V8/GB/Celebration/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackdaddy Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 That is one cool website! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackdaddy Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I cant get enough of playing that V8 video! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 On 3/2/2014 at 3:30 AM, mackdaddy said: I cant get enough of playing that V8 video! Scania sales marketing videos on the Mack-Scania V-8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPK9PyenTtc&list=PL2E544D75CCFF281D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CvwcMGqlZY&list=PL2E544D75CCFF281D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWSYHQkUmLk&list=PL2E544D75CCFF281D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLGnL_vs260&list=PL2E544D75CCFF281D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4la95x_QY18&list=PL2E544D75CCFF281D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEVLrFB5uVk&list=PL2E544D75CCFF281D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ5Qn5FOdlw&list=PL2E544D75CCFF281D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7C2OsdSH8k&list=PL2E544D75CCFF281D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v52etw_qTQo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuu4D-j-Ymc http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/34855-the-new-scania-streamline/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ws721 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Wow! What an education!! Thanks for that info. Quote Remember if it's got a hood it's no good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Great info once again.....I think we should sticky some of these threads on these important topics..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Wow! What an education!! Thanks for that info.You're quite welcome. In putting all this down so as to share the developments of Mack and the truck industry with others, the pleasure is all mine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Mack Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 When Scania introduced the 140 series in 1969 with the 350hp V8 DS14 it became the most powerful highway truck available in Europe... it had an achilles heel that let it down, the G672 trans from the 110 was not up to par until replaced by the GR860 in 1971.10,000 LB140's were produced from 1969-76, a high number for a premium truck in those days, when it was replaced by the 141 series as competition from Volvo, Mercedes and Fiat were encroaching on the 350hp market.. the DS14.01 in the 141 series incorporated redesigned cylinder heads, camshaft and fuel system to encourage another 25bhp out of it and a torque increase of 21% to 1100ft/lb..The V8 Scania 141 was the "king of the road" in my days in the UK/Euro trucking industry..BC Mack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I wonder why scania went with single heads vs the dual like on the Mack's,....was one considered better than the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I wonder why scania went with single heads vs the dual like on the Mack's,....was one considered better than the other?Scania's feeling is that individual cylinder heads actually have several advantages. A cylinder head covering more than one cylinder imposes restrictions on the maximum potential for achieving efficient intake and exhaust flow, because provisions for cooling and clamping compromise cylinder head design. Since individual cylinder heads don't suffer from these obstacles, the head design can be optimized for rapid gas flow to achieve maximum fuel efficiency.And speaking of maintenance, it is far cheaper and faster to remove and reinstall an individual cylinder head, than a single cylinder head covering two to six cylinders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 That's what I figured with maintance issues...if you have a bad piston or rocker much more easy to pull down one hole than 2I think some locomotive diesels have individual heads as well for ease of maintance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james j neiweem Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Individual cylinders and heads like the EMD's (Now Cat) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scania v8 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) 15.6l 560hp 2700Nm euro5 just serviced... 20170311_111259_01 Edited March 13, 2017 by scania v8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) KS Does the Scania V8 have an Engine brake function (Dynatard) they don't mention it! That in my opinion was one of the down falls of the v 8 lack of engine braking! Edited March 13, 2017 by fjh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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